* An unofficial New Silmarillion Outline *

[Findegil]

this barrow is deader than death

I will take it as an compliment for myself that you took so long to mark that.

One more thing I wanted to ask you - can you tell me what sources did you use for the 11 chapters you finished by now (as you said)?

I understand that you mean the Quenta Silmarillion chapters
. 1 Of the Beginning of Time
. 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees
. 3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles
… Of Aulë and the Dwarves
……Here are the words of Pengolod concerning the Naugrim
… Anaxartaron Onyalie
…… Of the Ents and the Eagles
. 4 Of the Coming of the Elves
… The legend of the Awaking of the Quendi (Cuivienyarna)
… Of the captivity of Melkor
… The Clan-names, with notes on other names for divisions of the Eldar
…… Lindar (Teleri)
…… Vanyar
…… Ñoldor
…… Sindar
…… Nandor
[b]. 5 Of Thingol and Melian
. 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
… The Names of Finwë's descendants
…… 1. The names of Finwë
…… 2. (The names of the child of Míriel)
…… 3. (The names of the children of Indis)
…… 4. (The names of the children of Fingolfin)
…… 5. (The names of the children of Finarfin)
…… 6. The names of the Sons of Fëanor
. 7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel
. 8 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor
. 9 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
. 10 Of the Drakening of Valinor
… Of the Rape of the Silmarils
. 11 Of the Thieves’ Quarrel

First of all I did never claim these chapters where any think near finished! To produce a draft is a private leisure time occupation. The result is as fare from being finished as any readable text of chapter might be. The chapters are untouched by the group, which means they are worth no more than the nice hours I spent to produce them. The ecception to this are chapters 7 to 10 which have been discussed here a very long time ago, when the former active group of members found it neccessary to produce in a shorter time something as an example of how they imagined the end result of their edidting while working on the Fall of Gondolin.
The basic text for these chapters is the Later Quenta Silammrillion found in HoME 10 but of course there are passages skipt and adds and replacements from various sorces ranging from the Lost Tales to Words, Phrases and Passages- Eldarin roots and stems, PE17. If you and I will succed in re-establishing a working discussion, I will post my drafts chapter by chapter as the discussion goes forward.

Regarding Of the Coming of the Elves - I'm not entirely sure if the Clan-names should be kept inside the main body of the text - I think it should go in the appendices; same thing with the Cuivienyarna (sort of like the Tale of Adanel in the Athrabeth).

The Names of Finwë's Descendants don't belong (in my opinion) to the main body of text - the tone of it is not right, and it is too much of an intrusion in the main narrative. Besides, if one would edit the text of The Names of Finwë's Descendants and The Clan-names (in the chapter Of the Coming of Elves) to fit the narrative better, it would damage the original text of the essays and alter their nature. So perhaps it would be better to put them inside the appendices or to the Volume III of the Translations from the Elvish.

In both cases your oppinion is very welcome and might be in harmony with the oppinon of some other members. Draft making is often a kind of experimenting with possibilities. The group discussion is what decisides such questions. And therefore they have to wait for that discussion to happen.

But in any case, I have a proposal: how about including the essay Círdan found in The Peoples of Middle-earth as an appendix to the chapter Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalië?

Appendicies are not much liked and often avoided (but see the discussion of the Athrabeth). In my draft the essay Círdan is taken up into the body of that chapter.

And I respectfully disagree with the splitting of the chapters Of the Beginning of Time and Of Valinor and the Two Trees.

Actually I would not call this 'spliting a chapter'. The questions was reased when we decisded to eliminate from the Ainulindale the part about the first conflict of the Valar upon Middle-Earth. In the editing of the Ainulindale we had enriched these passages greatly with the later material from the Annals of Aman. And we were sure that these infromation should not be lost. A very compressd summary of these events is found at the beging of the Later Quenta Silmarillion chapter Of Valinor and the Two Trees. To replace these 2 paragraphs with a big chunk of text was found unproportional and desrupting for the chapter title. Therefore we decisided to make this addition to the Quenta Silmarillion in a similar way as Christopher Tolkien had done in the published Silmarillion of 1977.

Respectuly
Findegil

P.S.: Sorry for being late with these answer, but I had to read the Athrabeth to prepair myself for the discussion, which took some time and was found more improtant for the moment.

[Arvegil145]

Hmmmmm...glad to see that I'm not the only walking corpse here. (While I'm at it, can you tell me if there are any active (for lack of a better word) users around here - I can't seem to spot any beside you and me.)


Anyway, I'm still a bit in the dark concerning the Ainulindalë and the first two chapters of the Quenta: you said that you have taken a good chunk of the Ainulindalë and transferred it into the beginning of the Quenta. Now, what are the dividing points - in other words, where did you end the Ainulindale? And with what did you start Of the Beginning of Time and Of Valinor and the Two Trees?


Concerning Círdan (and rest of the material which is in the form of essays) - I seem to think that (like I said), that there is too much discrepancy in the tone to put it into the narrative, if you follow me. I know that the focus of the project is not primarily concerned with the style, but I still feel a little uncomfortable with such a drastic shift in the tone of the text. Although I'm not really hellbent on it.


One more thing - I don't have access to Vinyar Tengwar nor Parma Eldalamberon, so it would more than welcome if you (if you have them) add (or propose adding) some stuff from VT or PE which otherwise might have been lost.

[Findegil]

Take some patience! Hopefully we will not be so alone for long. At least Aiwendils last post it not unusellay fare in the past. I am sure he will come back at some point (I hope soon). From Maedhros we have not heard for a long time and I fear that he lost interest. gondowe has allways be an unregular poster so that I would think that he will also come back. I hope that with naming this three as main contributers of the last wave (or waves) of activity I will not affornt anybody. It was not meant in that way, each and every contribution is important!

About the split: In our Ainulindalë we skipt from mid of §23 [... And in this work the chief part was taken by Manwë and Aulë and Ulmo. But Melkor, too, was there AINU-08.2 {from the first}<soon>, and he meddled in all that was done, turning it, if he might, to his own desires and purposes AINU-08.3 . {; and he ...] to the end of §38. We us again §39 to §41.
The rest of §23 and the §24 to §38 of the Ainulindale D build together with additions from Myths Transformed and Annals of Aman the chapter Of the Beginning of Time Beside some small snipets used in that chapter the Later Silmarillion becomes the basic text for our editing starting with §12 [In the darkness and the confusion ...]. Were the break will be between the chapters Of the Beginning of Time and Of Valinor and the Two Trees is not yet clear. In think it would be best in the middle of §12 between [... Thus {he}[Melkor[/u] escaped from the wrath of the Valar, and far in the North he VT-SL-01 <editorial addition had> built himself a fortress, and delved great caverns underground, and deemed that he was secure from assault for ever.VT-LQ-01 <LQ2[footnote to the text: The chief of his fortresses was at Utumno in the North of Middle-earth; but he made also a fortress and armoury not far from the northwestern shores of the Sea, to resist any assault from Aman. This was called Angband and was commanded by Sauron, lieutenant of Melkor.]>] and [Thus ended the Spring of Arda. And the dwelling of the Valar upon Almaren was utterly destroyed, and the {Gods}[Valar] had no abiding place upon the face of the earth. ...]. I hope this is helpful.

Concerning the essay: It is true that the goal of this project is not concerned with style, but the text has to be at least readily readable. And therefore such questions as these have to wait the actual editing. Normaly either the producer of the draft or some one else will try to incooperate such addtions and the group will then discuss if the value gained is worth the desruption done, or will together better the editing until the result is okay for us.

One more thing - I don't have access to Vinyar Tengwar nor Parma Eldalamberon, so it would more than welcome if you (if you have them) add (or propose adding) some stuff from VT or PE which otherwise might have been lost.

That is how the forum has ever worked: who knows something to add will bring the idea forward. If the source is not readily accesible for all, some one who has access will put up the neccessary part of the text and its background / commentray so that every body who reads here my contribute. And when the issue is decided whoever is working at the actual text my put it together.

Respectfuly
Findegil