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Old 01-25-2016, 08:22 AM   #1
Zigûr
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Frodo's fate is the obvious counterpoint to the argument that The Lord of the Rings lacks consequences because so few of the protagonists die. It could be argued that in some respects Frodo suffers a fate worse than death, or at least would have had he not been afforded the possibility (and only a possibility, I believe - success was not guaranteed) of healing in Aman.

I think we see a little of that in Bilbo as well; the outcome of his adventure was not universally positive for him, even if it mostly was.

On the one hand, in Letter 151, Professor Tolkien does say that "Frodo is not intended to be another Bilbo. Though his opening style is not wholly un-kin. But he is rather a study of a hobbit broken by a burden of fear and horror — broken down, and in the end made into something quite different."

On the other hand, however, in Letter 246, Professor Tolkien observes of Bilbo and the journey to Aman that "he also needed and deserved the favour on his own account. He bore still the mark of the Ring that needed to be finally erased : a trace of pride and personal possessiveness. Of course he was old and confused in mind, but it was still a revelation of the 'black mark' when he said in Rivendell (III 265) 'What's become of my ring, Frodo, that you took away?'; and when he was reminded of what had happened, his immediate reply was: 'What a pity! I should have liked to see it again'."

Of course that's arguably more to do with the Ring than with his experiences.

Similarly, I also don't think Frodo's experience was wholly negative, although it certainly was to a great extent. Frodo gained great wisdom through his experience, however: even Saruman noticed it. Frodo's insight about Saruman is very telling of the understanding he achieves: "He was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare to raise our hands against." I suppose this could be perceived as either a good or a bad thing.

It's interesting to note that while Bilbo's adventure ultimately left him unsatisfied with Hobbit society, he did settle down in Rivendell rather than pursuing his wanderlust indefinitely, which seems to favour the possibility that his experiences fostered the desire for a different society more than it made him that much less sedentary.
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:26 AM   #2
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It's interesting to note that while Bilbo's adventure ultimately left him unsatisfied with Hobbit society, he did settle down in Rivendell rather than pursuing his wanderlust indefinitely, which seems to favour the possibility that his experiences fostered the desire for a different society more than it made him that much less sedentary.
I would say that the same impetus toward 'adventure', which was an innate part of his being, was what landed Bilbo ultimately in Rivendell.

He'd had the affinity toward Elves, and an interest in the outside world long before Gandalf approached him about the Quest of Erebor. Indeed, Bilbo's apparent difference from others of his race were what attracted Gandalf to him as a part of Thorin's company.

Having given the Ring and nearly all his possessions to Frodo, there was nothing holding him to the Shire. He also needed the safest place possible in which to live, since Sauron had become aware of him and his connection with the Ring. What better place for Bilbo than Rivendell?
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:54 PM   #3
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He also needed the safest place possible in which to live, since Sauron had become aware of him and his connection with the Ring.
Except Bilbo was blissfully unaware of any of that; Gandalf didn't tell him. In fact, Sauron had no idea that "Baggins" and "Shire" were of any significance at all until he interrogated Gollum, not long before Frodo set out.
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:26 PM   #4
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Except Bilbo was blissfully unaware of any of that; Gandalf didn't tell him. In fact, Sauron had no idea that "Baggins" and "Shire" were of any significance at all until he interrogated Gollum, not long before Frodo set out.
Well, fear of Sauron wasn't Bilbo's motive for going to Rivendell, but it was a factor in his staying there permanently.
Bilbo told Frodo that he'd considered going back to the Shire to get the Ring but had been dissuaded by Gandalf and Elrond because Sauron was searching for him.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:59 PM   #5
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The only time-frame during which that would have been possible would have been within the preceding year, IF (we don't know this) Gandalf passed through Rivendell on his way from Mirkwood, where he interrogated Gollum, to the Shire, where he had the "Shadow of the Past" conversation with Frodo. From thence he went straight to Isengard, and didn't reach Rivendell until shortly before Frodo's arrival there.
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Old 01-25-2016, 10:08 PM   #6
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I want to point out that Bilbo, though remarkably well-preserved, was quite an elderly hobbit after all. Had he been younger, and had young companions, he might have adventured some more with them. However, that wasn't the case; but even so, Bilbo picked one spot to settle down where there was most diversity of what to do and how to feel. He says himself that it's just great to do everything from eating to exploring nature in Rivendell.

Also, I'm getting rusty, so I'm not 100% sure, but did he not visit the Lonely Mountain for a time while Frodo had the Ring in the Shire? He didn't settle down completely for quite a while.
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:41 AM   #7
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Also, I'm getting rusty, so I'm not 100% sure, but did he not visit the Lonely Mountain for a time while Frodo had the Ring in the Shire? He didn't settle down completely for quite a while.
He did get to Dale. I would imagine he saw the Lonely Mountain again, but doesn't seem like he visited:

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'I got here without much adventure,' he said, 'and after a rest I went on with the dwarves to Dale: my last journey. I shan't travel again. Old Balin has gone away. Then I came back here, and here I have been.'...~Many Meetings
As for what Bilbo knew about the Ring and any danger he was in once settled in Rivendell:

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'I hear all kinds of news, from over the Mountains, and out of the South, but hardly anything from the Shire. I heard about the Ring, of course. Gandalf has been here often. Not that he has told me a great deal, he has become closer than ever these last few years. The Dunadan has told me more. Fancy that a ring of mine causing such a disturbance! It is a pity that Gandalf did not find out more sooner. I could have brought the thing here myself long ago without so much trouble. I have thought several times of going back to Hobbiton for it; but I am getting old, and they would not let me: Gandalf and Elrond, I mean. They seem to think that the Enemy was looking high and low for me, and would make mincemeat of me, if he caught me tottering about in the Wild.'~ibid
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