Authorial Control and World Building - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nerwen · 06-07-2016, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

This thread's title comes from a blog by Dr. Dimitra Fimi, a well-regarded scholar of Tolkien and fantasy. Her thoughts in the blog struck me as interesting for our discussions here, where we often quote Tolkien's letters as the definitive take on a topic or idea. Yet as Dr. Fimi suggests, there are different ways of reading, different pleasures. And, those pleasures may depend on the type or mode of fantasy an author uses.

Is this a helpful distinction, between readers who read for immersion in alternate worlds and readers who enjoy simply the possibility of alternate worlds without the saturation? I've always been bemused by Tolkien's defense of "applicability" and the freedom of the reader with his attempts in his letters to explain how his Legendarium ought to be read.

Her blog entry is easy to read: Authorial Control and World Building

Thanks for linking this- and yes, I think it is a helpful distinction, and no doubt explains why readers of certain works of fantasy are much more likely to engage in passionate debates over "canonicity", or obsess over background characters, or worry about minor inconsistancies... you know, what we do here, basically.

Fimi's thoughts on "intentional fallacy" vs "fallacy of anonymity" as "equally perilous paths" are also interesting, given that we quite often treat this as a very black-and-white issue, a simple matter of choosing one or the other approach.

Faramir Jones · 06-07-2016, 08:34 AM

Sir Arthur C. Clarke (as he later became) said that he and friend Val Cleaver had a meeting in Oxford with C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. He mentioned this in an essay, 'Memoirs of an Amateur Astronaut (Retired)', published in the 1960s, in which he spoke about his involvement in the British Interplanetary Society (BIS) from the mid-1930s to the mid-1950s.

Some background was given to understand why the meeting took place. In the 1930s, before the Second World War, the BIS and its activities were not taken seriously. Clarke said that the organisation’s Journal attracted ‘a surprising amount of attention and a not surprising amount of amusement’.

That doyen of scientific publications, the good, grey Nature condescended to notice our existence, but concluded its review with the unkind cut: ‘While the ratio of theorizing to practical experimentation is so high, little attention will be paid to the activities of the British Interplanetary Society.’

Clarke conceded this, but pointed out that the Society had the equivalent of $2.50 in the till. (Arthur C. Clarke, Voices from the Sky, (London: Mayflower Paperbacks, 1969, p. 144.))

After the Second World War, he said that the BIS was taken more seriously, due to the German V2 rocket. In speaking of those who supported and opposed the Society’s aims, he referred to a couple of familiar names, and detailed a meeting with them both:

Less sympathetic to our aims was Dr. C. S. Lewis, author of two of the very few works of space fiction that can be classed as literature, Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra. Both of these fine books contained attacks on scientists in general, and astronauts in particular, which aroused my ire. I was especially incensed by a passage in Perelandra referring to ‘little rocket societies’ that hoped to spread the crimes of mankind to other planets. And at the words: ‘The destruction or enslavement of other species in the universe, if such there are, is to these minds a welcome corollary,’ I really saw red. An extensive correspondence with Dr. Lewis led to a meeting in a famous Oxford pub, the Eastgate. Seconding me was my friend, Val Cleaver, a space buff from way back (and now chief engineer of the Rolls-Royce Rocket Division). Supporting Lewis was Professor J. R. E. Tolkien [sic], whose trilogy The Lord of the Ring [sic] created a considerable stir a few years ago. Needless to say, neither side converted the other, and we refused to abandon our diabolical schemes of interplanetary conquest. But a fine time was had by all, and when, some hours later, we emerged a little unsteadily from the Eastgate, Dr. Lewis’ parting words were ‘I’m sure you’re very wicked people – but how dull it would be if everyone was good.’ (Voices from the Sky, p. 148.)

In another account, quoted in a biography of him, Clarke gave more details of this meeting:

Val and I stayed at the Mitre, which is a wonderful non-Euclidean building with no right angles to it, no two rooms the same. We met Lewis at the Eastgate, and this little man, whose name I didn’t catch, was in the background. Then I found out that his name was Tolkien. (Neil McAleer, Odyssey: The authorised biography of Arthur C. Clarke, (London: Victor Gonzalez Ltd., 1992, p. 69.))

06-07-2016, 08:34 AM	#2
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	A meeting of Arthur C. Clarke and Val Cleaver with C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien Sir Arthur C. Clarke (as he later became) said that he and friend Val Cleaver had a meeting in Oxford with C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien. He mentioned this in an essay, 'Memoirs of an Amateur Astronaut (Retired)', published in the 1960s, in which he spoke about his involvement in the British Interplanetary Society (BIS) from the mid-1930s to the mid-1950s. Some background was given to understand why the meeting took place. In the 1930s, before the Second World War, the BIS and its activities were not taken seriously. Clarke said that the organisation’s Journal attracted ‘a surprising amount of attention and a not surprising amount of amusement’. That doyen of scientific publications, the good, grey Nature condescended to notice our existence, but concluded its review with the unkind cut: ‘While the ratio of theorizing to practical experimentation is so high, little attention will be paid to the activities of the British Interplanetary Society.’ Clarke conceded this, but pointed out that the Society had the equivalent of $2.50 in the till. (Arthur C. Clarke, Voices from the Sky, (London: Mayflower Paperbacks, 1969, p. 144.)) After the Second World War, he said that the BIS was taken more seriously, due to the German V2 rocket. In speaking of those who supported and opposed the Society’s aims, he referred to a couple of familiar names, and detailed a meeting with them both: Less sympathetic to our aims was Dr. C. S. Lewis, author of two of the very few works of space fiction that can be classed as literature, Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra. Both of these fine books contained attacks on scientists in general, and astronauts in particular, which aroused my ire. I was especially incensed by a passage in Perelandra referring to ‘little rocket societies’ that hoped to spread the crimes of mankind to other planets. And at the words: ‘The destruction or enslavement of other species in the universe, if such there are, is to these minds a welcome corollary,’ I really saw red. An extensive correspondence with Dr. Lewis led to a meeting in a famous Oxford pub, the Eastgate. Seconding me was my friend, Val Cleaver, a space buff from way back (and now chief engineer of the Rolls-Royce Rocket Division). Supporting Lewis was Professor J. R. E. Tolkien [sic], whose trilogy The Lord of the Ring [sic] created a considerable stir a few years ago. Needless to say, neither side converted the other, and we refused to abandon our diabolical schemes of interplanetary conquest. But a fine time was had by all, and when, some hours later, we emerged a little unsteadily from the Eastgate, Dr. Lewis’ parting words were ‘I’m sure you’re very wicked people – but how dull it would be if everyone was good.’ (Voices from the Sky, p. 148.) In another account, quoted in a biography of him, Clarke gave more details of this meeting: Val and I stayed at the Mitre, which is a wonderful non-Euclidean building with no right angles to it, no two rooms the same. We met Lewis at the Eastgate, and this little man, whose name I didn’t catch, was in the background. Then I found out that his name was Tolkien. (Neil McAleer, Odyssey: The authorised biography of Arthur C. Clarke, (London: Victor Gonzalez Ltd., 1992, p. 69.))