Do you think there should have been a contrivance to pre-empt the Eagles question?

[Galadriel55]

Well, the way the movies work, the question really begs itself in both trilogies - perhaps the Eagles couldn't carry the landing operations all the way to their respective mountains, but they could bring them much closer to their destinations. As for "safety first", the Eagles still show up for the final battle and go near those same mountains. Why can't they do it in the first place? Stealth? Well, if that's the issue, they still could have brought their passengers to a more convenient destination. Heck, if the Eagles got involved earlier in LOTR, the whole first volume and part of the second volume would have been unnecessary. In my opinion, the movies don't explain this, and this is a fair question to ask and could be considered a plot-hole. Even in the books, there is no explicit answer.

It's a legitimate question, and not at all obvious in terms of plot explanations. You can, of course, say that the Eagles aren't really involved at all, and we should all be grateful that they condescended (literally) to help even a little bit, or that they have certain boundaries they will not cross for various reasons, etc - but none of this is actually stated in either book or movie.

I think that to find a satisfactory answer, you just have to begin with an assumption that one exists. If you start out with the intention of proving a plot hole, no speculation will satisfy you. However, if you begin by assuming there must have been some valid reason for the Eagles to do what they did - why, then you don't even need a specific explanation, other than for curiosity's sake. And book readers would know more about the nature and character of the Eagles, which do a great deal to explain their actions.

If the movies wanted to avoid this question, I think the easiest thing to do would be to drop one sentence about the Eagles not meddling in the affairs of two-legged creatures, and then another sentence to show the amazement that they made an exception.

[Boromir88]

Tolkien refers to the eagles as a 'machine' in his Letters.

The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness.~Letter 210

Referring to the latin phrase "deus ex machina," a device authors/story tellers will use to help their heroes out of a sticky situation, or to solve a plot by using the supernatural. Along the lines of Aaron's post, Tolkien understood writing fantasy and the Eagles are used to their "absolute limit."

There is a powerful, up-lifting emotion in The Hobbit when Bilbo sees the Eagles "The Eagles! The Eagles! The Eagles are coming!" And this is echoed by Pippin in The Lord of the Rings.

I actually think it's not the way the Eagles are presented in the movies which leaves fans with the question "why couldn't they fly the Ring into Mordor?" It's the way the Army of the Dead is presented in the movies, as some indestructible, unstoppable wave of neon green snot. I was wondering why couldn't they just clear the path to Mordor as they did for Aragorn to Minas Tirith? They are the deus ex machina that created a plot-hole in the movies.

I don't think any explanation for the Eagles is needed in the movies, if anyone asks, I would just point them to this fan video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrJPiq9QGM

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

There is a powerful, up-lifting emotion in The Hobbit when Bilbo sees the Eagles "The Eagles! The Eagles! The Eagles are coming!" And this is echoed by Pippin in The Lord of the Rings.

This echoing I have always found to be one of the most inexplicably powerful moments in The Lord of the Rings: there is something I can't define about that symbol of hope appearing, and that reconnection to the beloved and comfortable narrative of The Hobbit in this point at which all hopes seem to have failed at last.

Of course, by adapting The Lord of the Rings before The Hobbit, this, like so many other things, is lost...

[Marwhini]

The Lord of the Rings: Book 6; Chapter 4: The Field of Cormallen (I do not have a page number, because it is a Kindle Edition from which I am getting the reference)

" Then Gandlaf, leaving all such matters of battle and command to Aragorn and the other lords, stood upon the hill-top and called; and down to him came the great eagle, Gwaihir the Windward, and stood before him.

'Twice you have born me, Gwaihir my friend,' said Gandalf. 'Thrice shall pay for all, if you are willing. You will not find me a burden much greater than when you bore me from Zirakzigil, where my old life burned away.'

'I would bear you.' answered Gwahir, 'whither you will, even were you made of stone.'"

This implies that not only was their absolutely no reluctance by the Eagles to act on Gandalf's request, but that Gwaihir seems to be in some sort of debt to Gandalf (else what is he "paying for" in 'thrice shall pay for all'?).

In the films.... I can see how some "Contrivance" to eliminate this question might be needed, since it is something that people aren't going to catch on to very easily just how bad an idea it is, nor of the deeper relationship between the Eagles and Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond that is likely to exist.

So... As for whether The Films 'should' have had some contrivance.... Probably.

But then doing so runs counter to pretty much everything that Tolkien was about.

MB

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

'Twice you have born me, Gwaihir my friend,' said Gandalf. 'Thrice shall pay for all, if you are willing. You will not find me a burden much greater than when you bore me from Zirakzigil, where my old life burned away.'

'I would bear you.' answered Gwahir, 'whither you will, even were you made of stone.'"

This implies that not only was their absolutely no reluctance by the Eagles to act on Gandalf's request, but that Gwaihir seems to be in some sort of debt to Gandalf (else what is he "paying for" in 'thrice shall pay for all'?).

I wouldn't read too much into that line of Gandalf's. It's used other times, by other characters. There's Bilbo:

But 'third time pays for all' as my father used to say, and somehow I don't think I shall refuse.

The Hobbit Inside Information

And Sam:

'Gollum!' he called softly, 'Third time pays for all. I want some herbs.'

TTT Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit

I think it likely Gandalf had just picked up that saying from his long-time association with hobbits.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I don't think any explanation for the Eagles is needed in the movies, if anyone asks, I would just point them to this fan video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZrJPiq9QGM

Heeehee, the orcs are a lot like Ewoks. But this video goes with the idea of the shooting tower, or that there is a physical/military reason why Eagles can't fly into Mordor (which still doesn't explain why they couldn't have carried the Fellowship from Rivendell until near the borders of Mordor in a single day).

[Boromir88]

Gandalf does have a history with these particular eagles and their lord:

It seemed that Bilbo was not going to be eaten after all. The wizard and the eagle-lord appeared to know one another slightly, and even be on friendly terms. As a matter of fact Gandalf, who had often been in the mountains, had once rendered a service to the eagles and healed their lord from an arrow-wound.~Out of the Frying Pan Into the Fire

I'm not sure if it's ever cleared up that Gwaihir, in Lord of the Rings, is the 'eagle-lord' in The Hobbit. If we take "thrice pays for all" literally, then Gandalf is forgetting about being rescued by the eagles in The Hobbit. So, it could just be a common saying Gandalf picks up as Inziladun says.

But it is clear from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, Gandalf has a friendly bond to these particular eagles who helped him out of some sticky situations. I also think it takes reading the book to understand the mutual respect between Gandalf and Gwaihir, and why the eagles aren't a Middle-earth taxi service.

Whether the movies need to explain this as an answer to the question "why didn't the eagles just fly Frodo to Mordor?" It's probably not necessary. But I do think they confuse the friendship between Gandalf and the eagles, by adding the "moth." It makes it seem like Gandalf can just summon eagle allies, whenever he wants, as long as there's a moth around. And that gives an impression, the eagles are Gandalf's taxis.

When being rescued off Orthanc, Gwaihir made clear that he was coming to bring news from Radagast, not "to bear a burden.":

"How far can you bear me?" I said to Gwaihir.
"Many leagues," said he, "but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."~The Council of Elrond

Heeehee, the orcs are a lot like Ewoks. But this video goes with the idea of the shooting tower, or that there is a physical/military reason why Eagles can't fly into Mordor (which still doesn't explain why they couldn't have carried the Fellowship from Rivendell until near the borders of Mordor in a single day).~Galadriel55

I shared that in hopes that others thought it was funny too, not as an serious rebuttal to the eagle question.

But I suspect Boromir had the right of it...one does not simply walk into Mordor. And don't forget, that was the plan. They were going to try to sneak through the front gate. It took Frodo sparing Gollum, and Gollum to show them a secret path that Sauron didn't watch as closely. There would have been no meeting Gollum, and no one in the Fellowship would have known about that path, had the eagles dropped them off near Mordor.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Heeehee, the orcs are a lot like Ewoks. But this video goes with the idea of the shooting tower, or that there is a physical/military reason why Eagles can't fly into Mordor (which still doesn't explain why they couldn't have carried the Fellowship from Rivendell until near the borders of Mordor in a single day).

Eagles don't fly long distances by flapping their wings. They actually can't fly long distances by flapping their wings.

To fly any distance, a Raptor of any kind needs to gain a pretty great altitude and then soar for a long distance.

The distance traveled (roughly 900 miles) would have taken about five days for Eagles to cross that distance, as they are not migratory birds who have large pectoral and wing muscles to utilized powered flight over long distances (i.e. they fly slow over long distances).

So it would not allow them to make the Trip in a single day. To give an idea of a trip the Eagles can make in a single day: Orthanc to Edoras. Or Lórien to Fangorn. They might be able to get a bit further in a big rush.

But a flock of Giant Eagles rushing about the sky is going to send up more than a few red flags from the "Bad Guys."

I went over this in my post above.

To use the Eagles would have immediately exposed the One Ring to both Saruman and Sauron, even if it was just bringing them closer to Mordor. It would not have been "in Secret" at all, but rather a giant Advertising Sign: "Here we are!!!"

Eagles can't "Sneak."

All it would do would be to reveal the plan.

MB