Languages Smaug spoke? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Barrel-rider · 07-27-2016, 10:36 AM

But weren't at least some dragons bred by Morgoth and Sauron? Because Dark Tongue could apply here if that's so.

Inziladun · 07-27-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrel-rider

But weren't at least some dragons bred by Morgoth and Sauron? Because Dark Tongue could apply here if that's so.

Dragons originated from Morgoth. It was Sauron who devised the Black Speech, and I know of no indication of Sauron 'producing' any dragons.

It was said the Black Speech wasn't very widespread anyway, by the time of the Third Age only remembered by the Nazgûl.

denethorthefirst · 07-27-2016, 02:10 PM

Tolkien wrote that the Orcs of Mordor spoke a "debased" Version of the black speech (the real-world equivalent would probably be the difference between classical latin and vulgar latin). For all we know even during the time of the war of the ring the black speech was still the official language of Mordor and in extensive use throughout the country (at least among the bureaucracy and the administration of the country).

As to the Dragons: they are portrayed as highly intelligent and long-lived so i would guess that they are able to learn and master several languages. The mother tongue of them is probably the one that was spoken among the higher ups in Angband when Morgoth created the Dragons (some twisted version of Valarin maybe?).

Inziladun · 07-27-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denethorthefirst

For all we know even during the time of the war of the ring the black speech was still the official language of Mordor and in extensive use throughout the country (at least among the bureaucracy and the administration of the country).

Though the Black Speech may have been the 'official' language of Mordor in Sauron's mind (after all, the Ring inscription was written in it), it doesn't seem to have worked out that way in practice.

I don't have my books handy, but I think there's a passage in the ROTK Appendices that discusses the Black Speech and its relative obscurity in the Third Age. I do seem to recall a passage stating that only the Nazgûl really remembered it by the time of the War of the Ring.

Barrel-rider · 07-27-2016, 02:23 PM

I was thinking Maiar instead of Valar. Maiar would be easier to corrupt.

***Mithadan*** · 07-27-2016, 04:08 PM

Working from memory, I believe that the Black Speech was developed by Sauron, so it is unlikely that dragons used that language. We can only speculate about what Morgoth's minions spoke during the First Age, but it was likely some form of Elvish.

Morthoron · 07-27-2016, 06:12 PM

I believe Smaug spoke Esperanto with a Portmanteau accent. Prior to his 3rd Age refinement, he spoke in a Créole Pidgin. Perhaps even Brobdingnagian.

07-27-2016, 10:36 AM	#1
Barrel-rider Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: End of the Bag, yet no bag went over me. Posts: 13	In reply But weren't at least some dragons bred by Morgoth and Sauron? Because Dark Tongue could apply here if that's so. __________________ Three rings for the Elven-kings munchin' on rye, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their nightly drinks alone, nine for Mortal "Men" doomed to cry, one for the Barrel lord on his barrel-y throne in the land of hoarders where the fellows cry.

07-27-2016, 02:10 PM	#3
denethorthefirst Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 81	Tolkien wrote that the Orcs of Mordor spoke a "debased" Version of the black speech (the real-world equivalent would probably be the difference between classical latin and vulgar latin). For all we know even during the time of the war of the ring the black speech was still the official language of Mordor and in extensive use throughout the country (at least among the bureaucracy and the administration of the country). As to the Dragons: they are portrayed as highly intelligent and long-lived so i would guess that they are able to learn and master several languages. The mother tongue of them is probably the one that was spoken among the higher ups in Angband when Morgoth created the Dragons (some twisted version of Valarin maybe?). Last edited by denethorthefirst; 07-27-2016 at 02:16 PM.

07-27-2016, 02:23 PM	#5
Barrel-rider Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: End of the Bag, yet no bag went over me. Posts: 13	In reply I was thinking Maiar instead of Valar. Maiar would be easier to corrupt. __________________ Three rings for the Elven-kings munchin' on rye, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their nightly drinks alone, nine for Mortal "Men" doomed to cry, one for the Barrel lord on his barrel-y throne in the land of hoarders where the fellows cry.

07-27-2016, 04:08 PM	#6
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,396	Working from memory, I believe that the Black Speech was developed by Sauron, so it is unlikely that dragons used that language. We can only speculate about what Morgoth's minions spoke during the First Age, but it was likely some form of Elvish. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

07-27-2016, 06:12 PM	#7
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	I believe Smaug spoke Esperanto with a Portmanteau accent. Prior to his 3rd Age refinement, he spoke in a Créole Pidgin. Perhaps even Brobdingnagian. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.