Sauron the Gene-maker - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nerwen · 07-31-2016, 01:14 AM

I've always assumed Sauron created the eye-flies deliberately, through vanity and experimentation.

However, it could also be an entirely passive side-effect of magical "pollution"- there are many other examples of Sauron's general corrupting influence on the surrounding natural world.

Finally- from a purely in-universe standpoint, as I don't think this is what Tolkien was going for- yes, as Galadriel suggests, it could be the result of artificial selection by superstitious minions, along the lines of Carl Sagan's suggested explanation for "samurai" crabs.

Take your pick.

Zigûr · 07-31-2016, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However, it could also be an entirely passive side-effect of magical "pollution"- there are many other examples of Sauron's general corrupting influence on the surrounding natural world.

This is how I think I always felt about it, like it was something that happened spontaneously as a result of Sauron's presence and the general malaise of Mordor, sort of like Mount Doom erupting at dramatic moments.

Inziladun · 07-31-2016, 06:48 AM

Good replies!

I'd considered the 'magical malice' effect, in which Sauron's long brooding on his own image and desires somehow emanated throughout his realm and caused creatures under his influence to reflect himself. I kind of like that, actually.

If Sauron did set out to deliberately mark such lowly things as flies as his own, that's really pretty scary. It accentuates his ambition to utterly control everything; to figuratively do as Gollum feared: eat the world.

Maybe someone should write a crossover having James Bond confront him.

denethorthefirst · 07-31-2016, 10:33 AM

The thing with the flies is so silly that (together with the talking fox, the Giants and the black swans) I always interpreted them as hobbit folklore. I mean the Lord of the rings is supposed to be a translation of a hobbit book, the red book of the westmarch, a book that has probably been copied and edited multiple times by hobbits. We experience the whole story trough their eyes. Of course if you take this fiction to its logical conclusion you have to wonder how much of the story we can take at face value at all!

Back to Sauron: it's quite clear that Morgoth and Sauron were very interested in genetic engineering right from the start. In the third age you have the plague, clearly a biological weapon, but also the Uruks and the Olog-hai. But I guess that apart from those two races the "normal" orcs in Mordor were also "bred" and did not reproduce freely.

07-31-2016, 01:14 AM	#1
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	I've always assumed Sauron created the eye-flies deliberately, through vanity and experimentation. However, it could also be an entirely passive side-effect of magical "pollution"- there are many other examples of Sauron's general corrupting influence on the surrounding natural world. Finally- from a purely in-universe standpoint, as I don't think this is what Tolkien was going for- yes, as Galadriel suggests, it could be the result of artificial selection by superstitious minions, along the lines of Carl Sagan's suggested explanation for "samurai" crabs. Take your pick. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

07-31-2016, 06:48 AM	#3
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Good replies! I'd considered the 'magical malice' effect, in which Sauron's long brooding on his own image and desires somehow emanated throughout his realm and caused creatures under his influence to reflect himself. I kind of like that, actually. If Sauron did set out to deliberately mark such lowly things as flies as his own, that's really pretty scary. It accentuates his ambition to utterly control everything; to figuratively do as Gollum feared: eat the world. Maybe someone should write a crossover having James Bond confront him. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

07-31-2016, 10:33 AM	#4
denethorthefirst Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 81	The thing with the flies is so silly that (together with the talking fox, the Giants and the black swans) I always interpreted them as hobbit folklore. I mean the Lord of the rings is supposed to be a translation of a hobbit book, the red book of the westmarch, a book that has probably been copied and edited multiple times by hobbits. We experience the whole story trough their eyes. Of course if you take this fiction to its logical conclusion you have to wonder how much of the story we can take at face value at all! Back to Sauron: it's quite clear that Morgoth and Sauron were very interested in genetic engineering right from the start. In the third age you have the plague, clearly a biological weapon, but also the Uruks and the Olog-hai. But I guess that apart from those two races the "normal" orcs in Mordor were also "bred" and did not reproduce freely.