Best Lotr/hobbit movies

[Inziladun]

Nice to see the Rankin/Bass entries, Kuru.

I haven't seen the live action Hobbit films, but I'd put the R/B ROTK over Jackson's epics in terms of my enjoyment.
It has a childlike charm, free of pretension or calculated earnings potential that I found sorely lacking in PJ's movies, despite (or actually because of, more likely) their gargantuan budgets.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I haven't seen the live action Hobbit films, but I'd put the R/B ROTK over Jackson's epics in terms of my enjoyment.
It has a childlike charm, free of pretension or calculated earnings potential that I found sorely lacking in PJ's movies, despite (or actually because of, more likely) their gargantuan budgets.

Looking back, I regret implying that I "hate" the Rankin/Bass cartoons as much as the rubbish offerings of Jackson in the lower portion of my list.

I do not hate the Rankin/Bass cartoons, I rather enjoy them, but I hold them to a different standard. They are more lighthearted fare, not intended to be taken so seriously. And you have no soul if you hate Where there's a whip, there's a way.

In fact, I probably enjoy the Rankin/Bass cartoons more than Bakshi's version but I think (I almost can't bring myself to say this) that Bakshi's version has more artistic merit than the cartoons.

That sentence right there is a scathing critique of the state of Tolkien filmdom.

EDIT: I'm seriously tempted to amend my list to move The Two Towers below the Rankin/Bass Hobbit...

[Boromir88]

It's been a long time since I've seen either the R/B or Bakshi versions, so it wouldn't be fair to judge them without so good or fresh of a memory. I completely agree with Kuru about Where there's a whip, there's a way though. Also, I just don't think it's fair to compare them to PJ's films simply because of the vast differences in time and money invested. Here's a general outline of Best to worst, for all of PJs films...

I think they basically just kept getting worse and worse after the Fellowship. The drop off from the 3 LOTR films isn't as severe as with The Hobbit films, which completely tanked and went into the trash, after a relatively decent first film.

Fellowship of the Ring - 8.5/10
The Two Towers - 7/10
Return of the King - 7/10 - a lot of this is based on having a conclusion to the story, and I still remember when first seeing it having an emotional realization the journey was over. There's more trash I don't care for in ROTK than the other two, but this film also contains some of the most powerful moments. The arrival of the Rohirrim to the battle, Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate, and his "My friends, you bow to no one," are more impactful moments for me than really anything in the other two (besides Boromir's last stand). But there's also more garbage...Legolas/Gimli's friendship being thrown to the gutters of comic relief, senseless "Arwen is dying" stuff, the incompetence of Gondor's pride and courage, Frodo sending Sam home.

An Unexpected Journey - 5.5/10 - , A guilty pleasure romp into a fantasy flick, but no depth and this time around the set design and music, which were excellent strengths to the LOTR films were major disappointments. Too much recycled music and too much green screen.
Desolation of Smaug - 2.5/10
Battle of Five Armies - 2/10

I have absolutely nothing positive to say about the last 2 hobbit films. I'd rather watch Hercules in New York with Formendacil and see Arnold Schwartzeneggar beat up a bear...or well obviously an actor in a bear costume:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoNVy759F0U

[Aaron]

In regards to choosing the worst, it's a tie up between the Bakshi film and Battle of the Five Armies.
For whilst the Bakshi version attempted to be faithful to the book, it is utterly ruined by a shoddy animation style, stilted voice acting which substitutes the dignity of the characters for cheap melodrama, and genuinely embarrassing scenes using interpretive dancers. To have such vivid imaginings of, for example, Gandalf discovering Saruman's treachery, and then to see said Saruman rendered as an evil Father Christmas who shrieks his lines is very disheartening.
But, as I say, their hearts were in the right place. They did the best they could, with the resources they had.

The same cannot be said for the ethos behind Battle of the Five Armies which stands as nothing more than a bauble, a shiny distraction used to eek out another payday. At first, the performances, the score and production values allowed me to overlook the true awfulness of it, but it has since slowly dawned on me how truly terrible and opportunistic the movie was.
Like a mindless hack and slash video game, large parts involve the characters stumbling moronically from one action set-piece to another. The descent of Thorin is not rendered as the result of his personality flaws and the desire for material wealth instead of honour - instead, the Dragon did it.
All the ambiguity and hidden complexity of the book has been thrown out. But hey, we get Billy Connolly gurning for the camera, so that's something, right?

In regards to what the best movie is. In truth, it's hard to pick between the Jackson trilogy. Because whilst there are many quibbles to be had with the story, with inclusions and exclusions, what I cannot deny is that the casting is magnificent. The set design is outstanding, and the score remains as hauntingly beautiful as when I first heard it. It is an incredible project which succeeds in spite of so much forced sappiness and character mishandling.
Take Shelob's Lair as a prime example of this. The stringy, slowly rising music. The grotesque trophies the spider keeps webbed up like carcasses in a butcher shop. The disgusting squelch as Shelob forces her bloated form through every hidden crevice. It's a masterpiece of design and music.
And the series is full of such examples.
So whilst not a patch on the books, I will say that the original trilogy is admirable in many respects.

[Kuruharan]

I realize there is no arguing taste...but here goes anyway.

I'm surprised to see Two Towers appearing so high on other people's lists.

I had a distinctly visceral and hateful reaction to the film when I first saw it in the theaters (oh so many years ago...)

In some respects, my reaction to that film was emotionally stronger than my reaction to the Hobbit trilogy. I think because this was my first exposure to just how out of control Jackson could get and how stupid he could be. By the time Unexpected Journey came around I expected it.

[Galadriel55]

I suppose it's the same reason, but different outcome in both cases. I guess TTT just looks tame compared with the new films.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I realize there is no arguing taste...but here goes anyway.

I'm surprised to see Two Towers appearing so high on other people's lists.

I had a distinctly visceral and hateful reaction to the film when I first saw it in the theaters (oh so many years ago...)

In some respects, my reaction to that film was emotionally stronger than my reaction to the Hobbit trilogy. I think because this was my first exposure to just how out of control Jackson could get and how stupid he could be. By the time Unexpected Journey came around I expected it.

For myself, part of it might be influenced that I did a full on Hobbit followed by LOTR marathon, and so I ended seeing the LOTR movies in a lot better light last time around.

I ended up enjoying TTT up through the King of the Golden Hall scene. The Frodo's flashback dream to Gandalf's fall in Moria, the taming of Sméagol and being led through the Dead Marshes, the Three Hunters chase of the Uruks and unexpectedly meeting Gandalf in Fangorn. And even though they portrayed Gandalf-Théoden-Saruman as an exorcism, that worked out better on screen, imo. Movie goes downs hill with the warg attack and Aragorn's "tumble off the cliff" *gasp*...but I came away enjoying the first half the movie.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

For myself, part of it might be influenced that I did a full on Hobbit followed by LOTR marathon, and so I ended seeing the LOTR movies in a lot better light last time around.

I ended up enjoying TTT up through the King of the Golden Hall scene. The Frodo's flashback dream to Gandalf's fall in Moria, the taming of Sméagol and being led through the Dead Marshes, the Three Hunters chase of the Uruks and unexpectedly meeting Gandalf in Fangorn. And even though they portrayed Gandalf-Théoden-Saruman as an exorcism, that worked out better on screen, imo. Movie goes downs hill with the warg attack and Aragorn's "tumble off the cliff" *gasp*...but I came away enjoying the first half the movie.

That is a good point, the first part of TTT was not as bad as the rest of it.

More than Aragorn's horse went tumbling off the cliff in that scene.