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Old 10-13-2016, 11:29 PM   #1
THE Ka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuruharan View Post
As a side point, but an important one I think, the Gondorian monarchy (and by association the Arnorian as well) was not an absolute one.
What Tolkien mentions of King Eldacar's trials of ruling is a good example, and even he didn't have the uphill battle of having to explain to others exactly how he was directly descended. Book-Aragorn, as others have pointed out, has had years of this experience, so it does make sense his 'non-mythical' self has his ancestry memorized like a speed dial.

Everyone else in the ruling elite of Gondor that we see in the books is rather obsessed (from our modern perspective) with the how and by who they are descended from Numenor, and in the mythos of the books this has meaning determining the 'potency' of a ruler and it does fluctuate throughout the generations (ex: Denethor and his sons as Gandalf explains to Pippin, or Prince Imrahil as observed by Legolas, etc.)
Maybe they're just born with it, maybe it's those Dunedain genes...


Quote:
That was a complex situation. I don't know if Tolkien himself had developed all the ultimate complexities at the time of writing. Rohan existed because of the gift of the Steward who ruled until the King returned. Theoretically, that gift could be revoked by the returned King. Aragorn was put in an awkward situation because he was asked (unknowingly on the part of the askers, it is true) to diminish his status and acknowledge the supremacy of the King of Rohan within the bounds of Rohan. Those bounds, however, could still be considered provisional as they had not been confirmed by the King. Acknowledging the claim of the King of Rohan could diminish the legal standing of the King of Gondor should he decide to revoke the gift of Calenardhon.
This is a very good observation. Not to tarnish Aragorn as a politician (as Tolkien wasn't very much a fan of this way of thinking and using your fellow man), but tactically this is a good choice in his immediate situation as he hasn't quite reached Gondor and there is the combined threat of forces from both Saruman and Sauron. If anything, the Rohirrim offer a buffer to the threat of Saruman joining his forces to Sauron, so advantageously it would make sense to not challenge or strip such a title from them. Aragorn arguably wasn't in a position to be that picky with his allies, especially other men who proved quite formidable.
As for the what-maybes after the fall of Sauron, Eomer and Imrahil were connected by marriage, but it would be safe to say no one was particularly interested in the idea of fighting amongst themselves for territory. It is mentioned that Aragorn as king later brought all groups of men into his own, but if this involved political squabbles it isn't said (as Tolkien didn't prefer his exemplary rulers to act this way).

Last edited by THE Ka; 10-13-2016 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Accidentally spelled several English words in French. My bad.
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:32 AM   #2
William Cloud Hicklin
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Let's keep in mind that Tolkien was drawing on a much older mode of narrative art than 20th or even 19th century literature. In the classical and Germanic and medieval legends which formed most of Tolkien's leaf-mould, false modesty (or any modesty) was not a component of the heroic character: Achilles and Sigurd and Beowulf and Gawaine are quite open and proud about their own rank and badassery.
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