Werewolf CXI - The Black Breath Ward

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

What calling the Guards? If I got it right, that's an event which happens on Day 5 spontaneously (or 6??? Clarification here, sally? When exactly does it happen? Evening of Day 5? Morning of Day 5? Morning of Day 6?). So the game ends on that Day in any case, just depends of what is the ratio in the village and whether the Gifteds are still alive. Am I reading it right?

I was talking about this:

Originally Posted by the Admin Thread

The representative informs me (by private message) of one person they wish to have removed from the Ward. During the Night, the target will be dispatched; like with those who succumb to the Black Breath, no body will be left as evidence, leaving no indication of whether the person was a conspirator or a victim.

On an unrelated note, I propose that anyone afflicted by the Black Breath, fearful as they may be, not announce their condition in an appeal to the Herbalist. I can see an easy way for Conspirators to sow confusion that way.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

On an unrelated note, I propose that anyone afflicted by the Black Breath, fearful as they may be, not announce their condition in an appeal to the Herbalist. I can see an easy way for Conspirators to sow confusion that way.

I disagree. (Technical note: according to the rules, nobody is allowed to actually "announce" it, but they can make hints, of course.) If all the villagers, from the next Day on, avoid saying things like "I am not feeling well" just as a banter and only say it when they are actually being affected by the Black Breath, then it could be a decent tool for the village, if the Herbalist cooperates. Because then if one Wolf decides to sow confusion into this and pretends to be sick, then we have two people on the thread who say "oh I slept really badly toNight", and it is clear one of them is probably sick and the other probably an impostor Wolf. Granted, we don't know the roles, so it may be a problem, and if neither of them dies, we don't know whether it is because they were cured, resp which of them was cured, or if they are both Wolves, or whatever. But it is at least something to process; like if one person keeps constantly whining how sick they are and still they aren't dying, then it is bound to become suspicious. But of course, that's just my opinion.

[Kuruharan]

Well, that answers that.

On balance, my opinion is that we should not lynch somebody toDAY. Given the dynamics of this game I think we need to stretch the game (as it were).

That, and we have precious little to go on toDAY. We are more likely to shoot an innocent than a wolf by firing wildly in the dark.

However, I am still open to persuasion.

We will have to nominate a representative toDAY and we may need to start serious discussions in that line before too much longer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Silver lining - at least maybe we'll get a nursery rhyme named after us, like the plague did?

Sorry for my lateness. Here and reading.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Still reading, but I wanted to mention (mostly regarding Legate and Kuru talking about hinting as to whether or not you're demoralized) - I'd be careful with that. Sally hosted a game similar to this a while back with delayed kills (Shelob and her spiderlings) and there was a bit of an issue regarding secretiveness of privileged information. Sally was fairly lenient that time; she might be a bit more strict this time.

[Kuruharan]

Rules question: (I'm sorry, I know we've had 8 months to ask...but I didn't think of it till now)

For clarification, can people be nominated for Representative multiple times? Or sequential times? Can one nominate oneself?

Originally Posted by Loslote

we should also vote for which one the Herbalist should protect.

I don't agree with this so much. I think the Herbalist should have freedom to exercise their judgment.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I don't agree with this so much. I think the Herbalist should have freedom to exercise their judgment.

We don't want the Herbalist to reveal, ever, since we very badly need to keep them alive. The only way we get any information from the Herbalist at all is if we have a scenario where the Herbalist has a choice to protect two competing claimants and we can decide which one they choose. In this scenario, we can know who was telling the truth and who was lying, which immediately gives us a wolf. If we do know who the Herbalist protected and neither die, we have a known innocent and a known wolf. If we know who was protected and the other dies, we have a known wolf and a dead known innocent. Either of these scenarios is much, much better than if we don't know who the Herbalist protected and they get it right, because then, no one dies, and we end up needing to kill both people, because we know that one is innocent and the other a wolf, but we can never know which.

Freedom to exercise judgement is all well and good, but we should never willingly throw away information.

[Lalaith]

I've read through everyone's posts, I'm still feeling confused and it's nearly my bedtime. I will accept the Wards majority verdict.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

We don't want the Herbalist to reveal, ever, since we very badly need to keep them alive.

Unless I'm badly mistaken, the Herbalist can't reveal.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I don't agree with this so much. I think the Herbalist should have freedom to exercise their judgment.

In the light of the new Day, one free of the clouds of despair, this does strike me as suspicious - why would you immediately balk at the idea that the Herbalist and the village should plot together unless that makes your job, as a wolf, that much harder? This kind of plan makes it almost impossible for wolves to false reveal as afflicted by the black breath, which makes it much, much more difficult for the wolves' kills to stick. I wouldn't be surprised if this was Kuruwolf panicking a little when he realized how much harder the game would be if we did implement that kind of plan in the event of a false reveal.

Edit: xed with Kuru and with our dear moddess

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Loslote

In the light of the new Day, one free of the clouds of despair, this does strike me as suspicious - why would you immediately balk at the idea that the Herbalist and the village should plot together unless that makes your job, as a wolf, that much harder? This kind of plan makes it almost impossible for wolves to false reveal as afflicted by the black breath, which makes it much, much more difficult for the wolves' kills to stick. I wouldn't be surprised if this was Kuruwolf panicking a little when he realized how much harder the game would be if we did implement that kind of plan in the event of a false reveal.

Edit: xed with Kuru and with our dear moddess

Simple, I was concerned yesterday with the wolves being able to vote together as a block to direct treatment away from ailing ordos, thereby whittling down our numbers to reach their target on DAY SIX. I didn't want to mention it yesterDAY on the off chance that the wolves wouldn't be able to think of it in time.

I also thought that yesterDAY the Herbalist probably already had enough to go on, and as it turned out I was right.

Now, over the past NIGHT I have had a re-think and to some extent I have kind of changed my mind on the matter. At the very least we should discuss the possibilities further.

However, I think it more important at the moment to state my belief that people who have the Black Breath must indicate so. Otherwise there could potentially be ambiguity as far as lynches vs. Black Breath deaths and that is something the Ward must avoid. We need as many threads to follow here as possible.

Now, this obviously opens the door for imposters, but I think we have a good Herbalist in our midst and the rest of us can certainly weigh in on who we think is more trustworthy.

And also, imposterdom bears great risks for the wolves as well.

[Nerwen]

"Woe! Woe!" Nerwen staggered from her house. "Night Two, woe!"

She stumbled over her wilted flower bed and shook herself awake. "Sorry, I was having a terrible nightmare about a terrible night mare- Night Two, Day One's mate. A great black equine monster, like the very steeds of the Nazgul (before they took to the air I mean), galloping off to Mordor with me helpless on her back! I know it was just a dream, but even in daylight, the horror of it clings to me like a shroud."

Nerwen covered her face with her shaking hands. "Whatever will become of us? It all seems so hopeless..."

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I disagree. (Technical note: according to the rules, nobody is allowed to actually "announce" it, but they can make hints, of course.)

Ok, I missed that. I knew roles couldn't be told, truthfully or not.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If all the villagers, from the next Day on, avoid saying things like "I am not feeling well" just as a banter and only say it when they are actually being affected by the Black Breath, then it could be a decent tool for the village, if the Herbalist cooperates. Because then if one Wolf decides to sow confusion into this and pretends to be sick, then we have two people on the thread who say "oh I slept really badly toNight", and it is clear one of them is probably sick and the other probably an impostor Wolf. Granted, we don't know the roles, so it may be a problem, and if neither of them dies, we don't know whether it is because they were cured, resp which of them was cured, or if they are both Wolves, or whatever. But it is at least something to process; like if one person keeps constantly whining how sick they are and still they aren't dying, then it is bound to become suspicious. But of course, that's just my opinion.

It just seems to me more trouble than benefit. There's already enough ambiguity without giving more opportunity for confusion.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

On balance, my opinion is that we should not lynch somebody toDAY. Given the dynamics of this game I think we need to stretch the game (as it were).

That, and we have precious little to go on toDAY. We are more likely to shoot an innocent than a wolf by firing wildly in the dark.

At this point, the odds of hitting an innocent are certainly better than getting a Conspirator. I still see sense in waiting, but I'm not sold on it totally.

x/d with Shasta

[Loslote]

Yes, I agree that we should hold off toDay, and start booting people toMorrow. I may vote for Legate or Kuru, since I trust that they would abstain from selecting someone toNight.

As far as those who hear whispers go, I think that if we have a competing 'reveal', we should also vote for which one the Herbalist should protect. If we get it right, no one will die, and we will know for sure who is innocent and who is evil. If we get it wrong, the unprotected person will die, and we will know that the person we asked the Herbalist to protect was lying.

That relies, of course, on both the cooperation of the Herbalist and the representative, since if the representative decides to muddle around with the deaths, we could mistake the information. In this test, then, we would need to be explicit as to who the representative should kill, and if the representative did not follow instructions, we probably could take that as a red flag about the representative's alignment. I think overall this strategy would work fairly well, so I'm not too worried about competing claims.

Also, according to the Admin thread,

Anyone can claim to have been targeted at any time.

Which is why, while I am very worried about these bothersome fainting spells I've started having, I am not worried about modfire should our dearest Sally grow annoyed by my persistent cough.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

We will have to nominate a representative toDAY and we may need to start serious discussions in that line before too much longer.

Agreed. As for myself, I am willing to nominate someone who isn't a wild shot, i.e. probably someone who has been around and posting and whom I have clearer reading on. It is a positive thing that it does not matter that much (at this point) that the person in question must be 100% innocent, because if they turn out to be a Wolf, they still can't act wilfully without having to answer for it.

I am also leaning towards not "lynching" ("sending message to the Guards") anyone at least toDay. After all, it's Kuruharan's horse. I mean, it's Day 1.