Werewolf CXI - The Black Breath Ward

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I anticipated you by several hours.

Oh, I actually saw that, but it didn't really help me I'm afraid. So basically we're probably winning and a lynch will only change the situation if all the three wolves are actually alive, only there's a theoretical chance in that case also that we lynch an innocent and they outnumber us toMorrow? Like, a lynch doesn't matter either way unless there's still three of them, in which case we're in dire straits indeed??

Which makes me think we SHOULD indeed do a lynch toDay, and I seriously think it should be Boro. I would hate to lose just because he and his ten posts slipped under everybody's radar (sorry dear, no hard feelings ).

Originally Posted by Legate

Sorry about that. Well, the main reason was that I was hoping to see reactions to the Night events before announcing it. But overall, there is not very much rational planning behind it - it was, most of all, the wish to make the WWs freak out at least for a moment by making them think that their Nightly attack was prevented by the Bard. Sort of a payback from my part for targeting me. Although, to be absolutely honest, I was 99,9% sure they would target me. Given that Lottie was supposed to die that Night and Kuru was the second logical choice, which made him likely to be protected by the Bard, it was basically clear that they were going to target me.

Well, it still sounded like a wolf posting at 2am then waking up the next morning and being like "hey there's no claim about last Night I could still claim Black Breath yeehaw" - but I admit it's hard to see what you would gain by that, given that most of the village trusts you anyway. It just really rubbed me the wrong way.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Which makes me think we SHOULD indeed do a lynch toDay, and I seriously think it should be Boro. I would hate to lose just because he and his ten posts slipped under everybody's radar (sorry dear, no hard feelings ).

I'm pretty confident that if Boro meant mischief he would not have voted Lottie for Rep. A wolf really couldn't afford that today.

++Lalaith for lynching.

Anybody else interpret her silence toDAY as a confession? Maybe not fair...but there you are.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I'm pretty confident that if Boro meant mischief he would not have voted Lottie for Rep. A wolf really couldn't afford that today.

Good point - not if there were three of them, then they'd gang up and elect one of their own. If there was only two or one, then I don't see why they wouldn't vote Lottie. But basically that confirms that Boro can't be a member of a pack of three wolves so he's not a lethal threat in any case?

Hmmmmm...

I still maintain he's a likelier wolf than Lalaith, and also because I take after my father I would really rather lynch a possible quiet wolf than a resonably active one if it doesn't make any difference to our odds of winning the game.

But if no one agrees with me I don't know what's the worst we can do with lynching Lalaith toDay - lynching a gifted (but that's the same for Boro I suppose)?

[Lalaith]

Hello everyone. Sorry to rush in just before deadline like this [RL] v bad day at work [/RL]
Well it's excellent news about Lotties miraculous survival but not such good news if the plan is to lynch me - it won't help at all, I assure you.
Given my last minute arrival I've not had time to do much than a skim read of the thread but I would say that Boro stands out as acting really weird yesterDay and is still acting pretty weird toDay. He would be the one I would vote for if I were rep.
Obviously ++ Lottie and ++Boro to lynch.

[Kuruharan]

The thing that I was most worried about toDAY of the wolves coming in and orchestrating a tie to prevent a potentially necessary lynch in case there are two wolves left can't happen now!

*throws confetti*

[Thinlómien]

++Lottie for rep

++BORO for lynch

Yeah, he shouldn't get away with it, really.

Anyway, pretty sure one of him and Lalaith is a wolf, hoping and assuming the two others were Shasta and Zil.

Good night, good Night and good luck to us!

[Loslote]

Sorry for getting in so close to deadline!

So, Lommy and Lalaith want ++Boro, and Kuru and Boro want ++Lalaith. I would actually love it if you would pick one, Legate, since I could be persuaded either way.

Edit: xed with Kuru - here I am!

[Kuruharan]

So...Lottie you around?

[Kuruharan]

The Bard's Theme.

Anyway, time for a funny story.

YesterDAY, when I said this...

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

As outstandingly well (and with a great deal of intestinal fortitude as well) as Legate has played, if some of my theories are correct, there just might be somebody here who has played even better than he has.

And I definitely don't mean me.

Of course, if my theories are wrong...then holy cow, Legate would have ascended to phantomic and Nerwenian levels of Werewolf Awesomehood...as if he wasn't there already.

I was not, in fact, talking about the discarded possibility of Legate being a wolf. I was talking about if he was the Herbalist!

You, sir, are up there with the very top Werewolfers for playing such a bold and up front game while all the while being so vital to the ultimate well-being of the Ward.

I was actually quite worried on NIGHT TWO that you were the Herbalist, but Lottie's subsequent behavior convinced me...up until the closing narration that she was.

So if that was a ploy on Lottie's part, a tip o' the hat to her (one among many the Ward owes her) for running that one.

Sorry about not protecting you on NIGHT FIVE. I actually could have, and I thought long and hard about what to do that NIGHT. But the wolves had thrown me for a loop on NIGHT TWO by striking Nerwen, a NIGHT that I did protect you. I was out of sync with them for the whole rest of the game from that point, usually unable to protect the person that I most thought needed protection.

I wanted to have a protect of you in the bank for NIGHT SIX and the wolves had also signaled a willingness to circle back and re-strike at previous targets and I thought it a worthwhile gamble that they might strike at me again and I didn't want to waste a protect on you when I thought it likely that I'd be the target and then be unable to protect on NIGHT SIX.

A wrong guess, as it turned out.

However, in a way it worked out well because it decisively eliminated you from consideration as a potential wolf in DAY FIVE's conversations (not that I thought that was at all likely by that stage).

I feel kind of bad for Lalaith, though. For whatever reason, most of the games that I've read that she has played in she has always been a wolf. In this game I could just sense it from her very first post. I don't know if that means that my reading sample is skewed or if she just has an inordinate number of wolf-side games under her belt.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think, with hindsight, that the rules favoured the village.

That may be true to some extent. However, the wolves were actually pretty close to winning on a number of fronts, even up to the last DAY, there were winning scenarios for them.

Of course, McCaber's absence really helped balance it out in a way...so maybe nine players is the right number for the format rather than ten..?

EDIT: Also, it is Sally's death-day! Happy death day!

[Nerwen]

Kuru, I am most flattered that you count me among "top Werewolfers"- and yes, both you and Legate did a fantastic job of hiding in plain sight. I didn't suspect either of you until Day Five- and I, too, had Lottie down as a possible Herbalist. It'll be interesting to know how things looked to the wolves, once they show up.

Originally Posted by Kuru

That may be true to some extent. However, the wolves were actually pretty close to winning on a number of fronts, even up to the last DAY, there were winning scenarios for them.

Of course, McCaber's absence really helped balance it out in a way...so maybe nine players is the right number for the format rather than ten..?

Well, I am talking about the initial situation. But as I said, it's hard to get right, anyway- in this case, a slight difference to the rules or circumstances could well have favoured the wolves instead.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

You, sir, are up there with the very top Werewolfers for playing such a bold and up front game while all the while being so vital to the ultimate well-being of the Ward.

I am blushing right now, sir. But thank'ee. In any case, much of the burden was on you and Lottie (especially her with all the lynch-votes. That was some responsibility, Lottie! But you, Kuru, accomplished the equally important task to survive. Huh).

Truth be told, I was super-worried and the despair *really* took me the last Day. I had spent the Night calculating all the possible scenarios, and came to the conclusion to use my single remaining herb on Lottie.
My original plan since the beginning of the game had been to keep us away from lynching people in the beginning (which worked) and afterwards to keep my last save for the last Day, so I could save myself if I woke up with the Black Breath; or to save another person if I didn't.

Eventually, on the last Night, I arrived to the conclusion that it was the best to keep Lottie alive in order to maintain clear majority of "known innocents" in the village, to maximalize the chance of lynching a Wolf and to prevent the WWs from taking over the vote. I was 99% sure the WWs were going after me (since I assumed the WWs would not target Kuru because after the last target had been Lottie, he would be the obvious target and therefore protected; and I was the last semi-known innocent), but I decided to throw away my original plan I had since the beginning and instead use my last herb there and then, letting myself be killed (no light decision, because on top of everything I was a Gifted!), but counting on that the Bard was still alive and if we survived with enough numbers, it would be enough.

I did that because I was convinced we still had the Bard (neither of the dead ones looked like one, barring the unlikely chance of it being Cab), and I was sure that there was no way the WWs could kill both of us anymore. But at dawn, when I learned that I got indeed afflicted with the Black Breath, the paranoia accumulated throughout the whole game started to sink in and upon reading Shasta's death narration, my immediate reaction was that he was the Bard. I got the total "I am Denethor, I am Éomer" feeling - that I am the last Gifted and I am about to die, and I alone in the whole village know that we are down to the last Gifted, me, who is about to die because I decided to forfeit my life during the last Night; and against all odds it turned out to be the wrong decision. So, for example not announcing my Black Breath rightaway was what I thought at that point a poor attempt of pitiful revenge, to make the WWs think they didn't get me, if they were going to die anyway. (But this is also a point against reading the thread at 2 AM when you feel tired and already paranoid.)

The second time my blood froze was when I read that Lottie and Kuru cast votes for each other. I just hoped nobody would point that out, because depending on the number of WWs, they could jump on that and outvote known innocents if they voted in unison.

But anyway! Altogether I enjoyed the game very much. Thanks to sally for organising this, and for giving me this role, because my record as Gifted so far had been pretty dismal (also didn't happen that many times).

For practicality - I am not sure if the game was much disbalanced. One would have to play a couple of times, but look, we lynched three times and had to get two Wolves; if we didn't, we would have lost. And given that we didn't even know after their deaths that they were Wolves...

I think, however, the right people to ask about the mechanics would be the Conspirators, because they knew the most already during the game and could follow how did the odds look like during the game.

In terms of thinking about the rules further, I have been wondering how did especially the average Ordos feel about it. I enjoyed the game, but I kept wondering, because nobody knew anything - the Gifteds did know at least something, and the WWs knew the most (knowing who was innocent and who was not) - how difficult was it to play as Ordo, or how enjoyable in total? As in, whether it didn't feel like you were just voting in the void, hoping you made the right decision.

But I quite liked the system as a whole. For example the "delayed lynches" was an interesting thing. At times, I felt maybe the Herbalist was a bit too powerful (with the delayed lynches, I could save whomever I wanted as long as I had herbs). That said, of course such system could be easily exploited by the WWs.

Oh, and last one. I think I owe an apology, or at least an explanation to Nerwen for not healing her on the second Day. Realising we had still a long time before us, and given that some people were questioning her innocence, I decided to let her go. Also, I admit, for my own peace of mind. I thought the village might still be torn about her on the next Day, and we didn't want that, and even I was not completely sure. Mostly it was about the numbers, though, and also that I thought healing somebody later would send a stronger signal that I still had some herb in reserve.

Also a question for the WWs: did you think I was a Gifted? Or, Eru forbid, the Herbalist?

[Nerwen]

That's all right, Legate, one of my posts on Day Two was partly intended as a signal to the Herbalist that I was okay with being sacrificed if necessary.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Truth be told, I was super-worried and the despair *really* took me the last Day. I had spent the Night calculating all the possible scenarios, and came to the conclusion to use my single remaining herb on Lottie.

I could tell...or at least I suspected you weren't just RPing it.

I wanted to say something to let you know that while we were still in danger, the situation wasn't nearly as dire as you seemed to believe it was. But, we were still in danger and I couldn't really think of anything to say that wouldn't have given too much away.

Eventually, on the last Night, I arrived to the conclusion that it was the best to keep Lottie alive in order to maintain clear majority of "known innocents" in the village, to maximalize the chance of lynching a Wolf and to prevent the WWs from taking over the vote.

And it was 100% the right decision.

I was 99% sure the WWs were going after me (since I assumed the WWs would not target Kuru because after the last target had been Lottie, he would be the obvious target and therefore protected; and I was the last semi-known innocent)

My problem was I knew I couldn't be protected.

However, I honestly think striking you was a tactical error on their part. It added to the number of unimpeachably confirmed innocents when they already had a stable full of those to cope with.

The second time my blood froze was when I read that Lottie and Kuru cast votes for each other. I just hoped nobody would point that out, because depending on the number of WWs, they could jump on that and outvote known innocents if they voted in unison.

Yeah, we nearly caused a catastrophic screw up there. I was in such a good mood because I knew that we had clinched at least part of the win condition that it never occurred to me that Lottie would vote for me right back. We did the one thing that gave them a shot at victory that DAY.

Fortunately for us, they didn't recognize it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So basically we're probably winning and a lynch will only change the situation if all the three wolves are actually alive, only there's a theoretical chance in that case also that we lynch an innocent and they outnumber us toMorrow? Like, a lynch doesn't matter either way unless there's still three of them, in which case we're in dire straits indeed??

Which makes me think we SHOULD indeed do a lynch toDay, and I seriously think it should be Boro. I would hate to lose just because he and his ten posts slipped under everybody's radar (sorry dear, no hard feelings ).

I say, let's lynch somebody. I am despairing beyond imagination and therefore probably seeing everything painted in the blackest way possible, but I am still hoping that we somehow have chance of lynching one Wolf and making the difference by that. I said that all already in my posts above... thinking there were too few youtube links on this thread. There's no way I'm gonna let go.

It really all comes down to what Zil (and McCaber) and Shasta were. Especially if I misjudged Shasta and he was not a Wolf - if it is so and you are reading this, Shasta, I am truly, deeply sorry.

In any case, because the DL is fairly close, I guess now no reason to prolong this---

++Loslote for Rep

And who for the lynch then? I said above, I am not sure if Boro is the right choice. Lalaith would be just as good for me. But I will let the village decide. For once.