**Ruin of Doriath - Pre-Revision speculation/proposal thread**

[Findegil]

First of all: Welcome to this quite corner of the Barrow-Downs!

Thanks for your thoughts. I will comment on them as I can:
RD-EX-24: I do not remember if we discussed about the blood or if I only thought about it. My idea for keeping was that the gold could well have been stained with blood during the plundering of Nargothrond and that neither Mîm nor Húrin's band would have taken upon themselves the cleaning work.

RD-EX-31: As far as I remember we could not find any source beside QS77 that in which the Dwarves were already present at Menegroth when Húrin brought the treasure. In such cases we tend to us the information of other sources.

RD-EX-39: Good catch. The original text was: 'for the things the Nauglath had made were more wondrous far than the scanty vessels and the ornaments that the Rodothlim wrought of old.' In the new context of the Noldor from Nargothrond such comparision seems impossible. I think we should simply skip the 'more':

§299 (§28d) RD-EX-39 <TN Now {come}came the Dwarves{ nonetheless over the bridge and} before the chair of {Tinwelint}[Thingol], and behold, the things of their workmanship they had conveyed thither in silken cloths, and boxes of rare woods carven cunningly. In other wise had {Úrin}[Húrin] haled the treasure thither{, and half thereof lay yet} in his rude sacks and clumsy chests; yet when the gold was once more revealed, then did a cry of wonder arise, for the things the {Nauglath}[Naugrim] had made were{ more} wondrous>. ...

RD-SL-19: Bodruith was exactly removed because of its meaning. Aiwendil worte:

Bodruith: I remember now my objection to the name. According to "Names in the Lost Tales" in II, GL glosses "bodruith" as "revenge". Christopher Tolkien speculates (quite plausibly, I think) that the Lord of Belegost received this name as a result of his actions in TN. Since this part has been removed from our version, I would drop the name.

RD-EX-54: I think that it is out of question that the actions of the Dwarves of Nogrod in the Fall of Doriath brought about a long lasting estrangement between the Dwarves and the Elves in general. In a simple black and white world view that does mean that they were afterwards nearer to a friendship with Morgoth following. This becomes even more true considering that later we learn that some of the eastern houses of the Dwarves joined Sauron in the Second Age. Nogord is later never really mentioned. So we can not be sure of its later attitude against Morgoth/Sauron or the Elves. The attitude of the House of Durin against the Sauron is not relevant in this case, since the sentence is more general. Beside that the caves that Thrain and Thorin used in their Exile were north of the gulf of Luhn, which means that they were in Belegost territory and not in Nogrod territory. And we have added that the Belegost Dwarves were in opposition to the revenge plans of Naugladur.

RD-EX-60: Good catch. But the cure is not so easy since Maedhros and I felt that he 'when' is needed. See the discussion of that here: Ruin of Doriath - Attack on Menegroth
Nonetheless I agree that we should change the sentence. What about:

§311 (§37b) RD-EX-60 {Now is}When the king was far in the woods with all his company, and the horns {grow}grew faint in the deep forest, but {Gwendelin}[Melian] {sits}sat in her bower and foreboding {is}was in her heart and eyes. ...

RD-EX-67: Very good catch. I agree that 'fairy' can not stand in our Version. But I have to look into the original text in the book if that is a real change or if we have here the kind of typo that I named 'scanos'. I expect that this might be the case, since 'Elwing the fair' is used later on and 'Elwing the fairy' sounds strange to me even in the context of The Lost Tales.

RD-EX-79: Again very true. I suppose we change it to:[qoute]§330 (§51b) RD-EX-79 <TN {But}And the waters of {Aros}[Ascar] flowed on {for ever} above the drowned hoard of {Glorund}[Glaurung]{, and so do still}, for in after days Dwarves came from Nogrod and sought for it, and for the body of Naugladur; but a flood arose from the mountains and therein the seekers perished; and so great now {is}was the gloom and dread of {that Stony}[the Great] Ford that none {seek}sought the treasure that {it}[Ascar] {guards}guarded [near by] nor {dare}dared ever to cross the{ magic} stream [of Duin Daer] at that enchanted place.[/Quote]

Posted by ArcusCalion:

That was everything I saw, besides a few minor spelling mistakes.

In the last years I have become a kind of text keeper for this project and as such I am of course interested in these 'minor spelling mistakes' as well. So please come back to me with them either by posting them here or by Private Message or by email, whatever you prefer.

In the name of all that participated in the project so far, I would like to thank you for your compliments. I hope honestly that your enthusiasm may wake up the interest in the project by some former contributors or new once. Anyhow I am this time inclined to guide and enhance the new impulse in a different and hopefully more effective way then I did when Arvegil145 or Gothmog, LoB stirred the quite of this Barrow. So guys, if you are still around, take a look, probably the time has come for some progress.

Respectfully
Findegil