* * Valaquenta Some proposals for a new project ... * *

[ArcusCalion]

I have found a passage in the Note on the Language of the Valar that should be included. It is added into the last paragraph of the section Of the Valar.

These are the names of the Valar and the Valier, and here is told in brief their likenesses, such as the Eldar beheld them in Aman. Vala-05.3 <Q&E Now the names that we have for the Valar or the Maiar, whether adapted from the Valarin or translated, are not right names but titles, referring to some function or character of the person; for though the Valar have right names, they do not reveal them. Save only in the case of Oromë.> But fair and noble ...

[Findegil]

Nice find! I will take it up.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Findegil]

BD-03 / Vala-07.2: In the discussion about chapter 1: ‘Of the Beginig of Time’ Aiwendil supposed an addition from MT, Text VI. He himself speculated that it might batter fit in here. So I proposed these below given placement and editing. We agreed that the ‘Valaquenta’ is the place for it. And that the editing should be discussed here.

Last of all is set the name of Melkor, He who arises in Might. Vala-07.2 <MT, Text VI Melkor Vala-07.21{must be made}[was] far more powerfull in original nature Vala-07.22{ (cf. 'Finrod and Andreth')}. The greatest power under Eru Vala-07.23{(sc.} ; he was the greatest created power{)}.[Footnote to the text: Cf. Finrod's words in the Athrabeth{ (p. 322)}: 'there is no power conceivable greater than Melkor save Eru only'.] Vala-07.24{(}He was to make{ /}/,/ devise{ /}/,/ begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete.{)} >But {that}the name Melkor he has forfeited; and the Noldor, who among the Elves suffered most from his malice, will not utter it, ...

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

It seems there is are a few points from the past 2+ years on this chapter that I have never responded to, so I’ll look at this now.

Vala-00.3: I agree we should include this phrase that Christopher Tolkien skipped.

Vala-04.5:

Originally Posted by Findegil

This was skipt by JRR Tolkien from LQ2 to Vq1, but in view of the passages taken from Sil77 about Eönwë, I think we should also restore this addition.

I don’t understand this reasoning. First of all, I believe we decided not to take the addition to the ’77 about Eonwe’s prowess in arms. Moreover, I don’t see why that has any bearing on the sentence at hand. JRRT deleted this statement, and I don’t see a reason to reinstate it.

Vala-05.2: I agree that we should reinstate this phrase deleted by Christopher Tolkien.

Vala-05.3: I like this addition and don’t see any problems with it.

Vala-07.2: I agree that thisi s the best place for this, but I think a little bit more editing is needed to make it fit, since Tolkien was writing notes to himself here, not text intended to stand in a narrative. Perhaps:

Last of all is set the name of Melkor, He who arises in Might. For he was Vala-07.2 <MT VI [t]he greatest power under Eru. {(sc. ; he was the greatest created power). [Footnote to the text: Cf. Finrod's words in the Athrabeth (p. 322): 'there is no power conceivable greater than Melkor save Eru only'.} {(}He was to make{ /}/,/ devise{ /}/,/ begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete.{)}> But {that}the name Melkor he has forfeited; and the Noldor, who among the Elves suffered most from his malice, will not utter it, ...

What I’ve done is:

- Remove the note “Melkor must be made far more powerful in original nature”. This is Tolkien’s note to himself about how he intends to change the character of Melkor; it means nothing within the tale.
- Remove the “sc. he was the greatest created power”, as this is just Tolkien’s explanatory note about what “the greatest power under Eru” means”
- Remove the footnote, which unless I misunderstand is Christopher Tolkien’s note.

[Findegil]

Vala-06: You are right, the discussion here ended with the removal of the phrase about Eönwë being the mighties in arms, so I missed to do that in my working copy. I corrected that now.

Vala-04.5: All the more I am inclined to reinstal this passage. At least I should explain my reasoning it bit more clear: From the discussion we had about Vala-06 I had the impression that we all were symphatic with the idea of Christopher Tolkien to strenght the character description of Eönwë, but that we found his addition 'out of blue' unuseable in the scope of our project. Now this sentence can do this, in a way. Yes, JRR Tolkien rejected it, so we do not get any reason. And we reinstalled other skipt passages. But I am not adamant on reinstalling it. Would it be a possibility to take it up some where else?

Vala-07.2: I am okay with your editing. Only in the case of 'sc. the greatest created power' I don't agree. I doesn't matter if Tolkien does writte this phrase as explaination for himself or for any other propose, it can serve as explainaiton for our readers. And in that function it might even make more sense.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

Vala-04.5: All the more I am inclined to reinstal this passage. At least I should explain my reasoning it bit more clear: From the discussion we had about Vala-06 I had the impression that we all were symphatic with the idea of Christopher Tolkien to strenght the character description of Eönwë, but that we found his addition 'out of blue' unuseable in the scope of our project. Now this sentence can do this, in a way. Yes, JRR Tolkien rejected it, so we do not get any reason. And we reinstalled other skipt passages. But I am not adamant on reinstalling it. Would it be a possibility to take it up some where else?

True, there are passages rejected by JRRT that we have nonetheless included, for various reasons, but we have (I think) done so rather sparingly. In this case, I don't see a pressing reason to second-guess Tolkien. And apart from the question of disregarding Tolkien's textual edits, one can ask the standard question: was this element merely omitted or was it rejected? I think it's likely the latter - indeed, I suspect that it might be the change from Fionwe son of Manwe to Eonwe herald of Manwe that led Tolkien to eliminate the special fondness of Tulkas for him.

Vala-07.2: I am okay with your editing. Only in the case of 'sc. the greatest created power' I don't agree. I doesn't matter if Tolkien does writte this phrase as explaination for himself or for any other propose, it can serve as explainaiton for our readers. And in that function it might even make more sense.

OK, that's reasonable. I do think that the passage works better if the two phrases are reversed, though: "he was the greatest created power, the greatest power under Eru". But this may cross the line between permitted outline expansion and forbidden stylistic editing.

[ArcusCalion]

Sending this draft to gandalf, I realized I had made some changes that I had not commented on. I will do so here:

1)

... her more than all others whom Eru made. Vala-0.245 <MT Varda was the most foresighted of all the Valar, possessing the clearest memory of the Music and Vision in which she had played only a small part as actor or player, but had listened most attentively.> Manwë and Varda are seldom parted, and they remain in Valinor. Vala-02.5 <LT With them came many of those lesser {Vali}[Ainur] who loved them and had played nigh them and attuned their music to theirs, and these are the Mánir and the Súruli, the sylphs of the airs and of the winds.> Their halls are above

Since we have elsewhere taken new information from the Book of Lost Tales, and we have used some of the names for the types of the Maiar (such as the Oarni in the Tale of Earendil) I see no reason why we cannot include the information on them here. I also included a small snippet from Myths Transformed, which gives us more info about Varda.

2)

... Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë. Vala-02.7 <LT {with them}With him came the troops of the Oarni and Falmaríni and the long-tressed Wingildi, and these are the spirits of the foam and the surf of ocean.>

This is added in the same vein as the previous addition, and gives an introduction to the Oarni who later appear in the Tale of Earendil.

3)

... Kementári, Queen of the Earth, she is surnamed in the Eldarin tongue. Vala-03.1 <LT {About them}With Aulë and Yavanna fared a great host who are the sprites of trees and woods, of dale and forest and mountain-side, or those that sing amid the grass at morning and chant among the standing corn at eve. These are the Nermir and the Tavari, Nandini and Orossi, brownies, fays, pixies, leprawns, and what else are they not called, for their number is very great: yet must they not be confused with the Eldar, for they were born before the world and are older than its oldest, and are not of it, but laugh at it much, for had they not somewhat to do with its making, so that it is for the most part a play for them; but the Eldar are of the world and love it with a great and burning love, and are wistful in all their happiness for that reason.>

Another addition in the same vein.

4)

... Mightier than Estë is Niënna, sister of Vala-04.2 {the Fëanturi}<Vq2 Námo>; she dwells alone. Vala-04.3 <LT Many other names has she that are spoken seldom and all are grievous, for she is Núri who sighs and {Heskil}[Heskin] who breedeth winter, and all must bow before her as Qualmë-Tári the mistress of death.>

I added these titles of hers in from the Lost Tales, since there is no reason not to. I updated the one that needed updating to LotR style Quenya.

5)

... All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming. Vala-05.25 <LT She is Tuilérë or as the Valar said Vána Tuivána who bringeth spring, and all sing her praises as Tari-Laisi mistress of life.>

Another addition of titles, some of which are later used in other chapters in our current drafts.

6)

.... and of her he learned pity and patience.vVala-06 <LT {Last}To Arda last of all came Ómar who is called Amillo, youngest of the great {Valar}[Maiar], and he sang songs as he came.>

I added this in, since we later mention him in other chapters I believe. I saw no reason to remove him, but I suppose this is a contentious addition and it may be removed.