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Old 09-18-2017, 12:09 AM   #1
ArcusCalion
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OS-MT-07.1: Why must it be eliminated? It is not involved in the difficulties in relating the lengths of the Years of the Trees and the Years of the Sun, so I do not see the difficulty.

OS-03: Why? It is said in the Darkening of Valinor chapter that he will be referred to as Morgoth thenceforth.

OS-MT-03.2: This is in reference to all Dwarves though, not just the Blue Mountains ones. As Durin is the eldest, he did indeed awake further east, and his mansions are said to be in Gundabad.

OS-MT-3.2: agreed.

OS-06: Agreed.

OS-05 (07): agreed.
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:19 PM   #2
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OS-MT-07.1: When we consider a change in the relation between Valian Year and Sun Year possibly occurred, then what would Tolkien have changed? The time that elapsed between the events recorded in the Annals or the dates of the Annals? Since we cannot say yeah or no we should act safely and skip such dates.

OS-03: Because what Tolkien did do here is exactly retelling the naming of Melkor as Morgoth. And I thought that in this case the change is unnecessary.

OS-MT-03.2: Since it is in reference to all Dwarves ‘east’ would only be true for a part of them in the new conception found in Of Dwarves and Men. In the old conception it is true for all Dwarves that their fathers awoke in the east. Therefore I think the only think that can be safely said about all the places of the awkening of the Dwarves is that they were in the north.

OS-MT-03.2: {; and few … : Sorry, I doubled the marker number! We will rename this change to OS-MT-03.5.

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Old 07-04-2024, 09:02 PM   #3
Elvellon
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A couple contradictions I noticed, which I've underlined for emphasis. First up:

Quote:
§28 Therefore Thingol bethought {[}him{]} of arms, which before his folk had not needed
Does this not contradict this bit of text from Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor a few chapters ago?

Quote:
§52a .... Now the Quendi had possessed weapons in Middle-earth, but not of their own devising. They had been made by Aulë and sent as gifts by the hand of Oromë, when it became known to the Valar that the Quendi were beset by prowling evils that had discovered the places of their dwelling beside Cuiviénen; and more were sent later for the defence of the Eldar upon the Great March to the shores of the Sea.
Also this statement in The Coming of Denethor:

Quote:
.... of the wanderings of that people, the Nandor, little is now known. Some, it is said, dwelt age-long in the woods of the Vale of the Great River, some came at last to the mouths of Anduin, and there dwelt by the Sea ....
is contradicted later in the same paragraph by this:

Quote:
OS-MT-09.5 <GA, Note on the ‘Guest Elves’ {the}The Nandor had turned away, never seen the Sea or even Ossë, ...
You could perhaps change "Nandor" here to "Green-elves", since it is only said that "some" of the Nandor dwelt by the Sea, and we can infer that the group who became the Green-elves were not among those who "turned aside and wandered southwards".

Last edited by Elvellon; 07-05-2024 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Added bit about the Nandor.
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Old 07-15-2024, 05:57 AM   #4
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OS-MT-07.2 "§28 Therefore Thingol ...": I agree that this is contradiction. Thank you for the catch! I would ammend in this way:
Quote:
§28 Therefore Thingol bethought {[}him{]} of arms, which before his folk had not needed OS-MT07.2<editrorial addition based on Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor §52a since the Great March>, and these at first the Naugrim smithied for him. ...
OS-MT-09.5: Again a good catch! But here I would simply change my edditing to make it moer specific:
Quote:
... because of their raiment of the color of leaves; and they were called therefore the Green-elves. OS-MT-09.5 <GA, Note on the ‘Guest Elves’ {the}These Nandor had turned away, never seen the Sea or even Osse, and had become virtually Avari. They had also picked up various Avari before they came back west to Ossiriand.>
Instead off "The Nandor" in general we are now talking only of "these Nandor, that followed Denethor into Beleriand".

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