Evil men in Mandos

[Galin]

Sooner or later: because the Elves believed that the fear of dead Men also went to Mandos (without choice in the matter: their free will with regard to death was taken away). There they waited until they were surrendered to Eru. The truth of this is not asserted. No living Man was allowed to go to Aman. No fea of a dead man ever returned to life in Middle-earth. To all such statements and decrees there are always some exceptions (because of the "freedom of Eru"). Earendil reached Aman, even in the time of the Ban; but he bore the Silmaril recovered by his ancestress Luthien, and he was "half-elven". He was not allowed to return to Middle-earth. Beren retrned to actual life, for a short time; but he was not actually seen again by living Men."

JRRT, note 4, Author's notes on the Commentary, Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth, Morgoth's Ring, my bookshelf, my house, near some great tall trees.

Does this put the "Men go to Mandos first" idea as an internal belief, wiggling into the tale of Beren perhaps, in any event?

Or am I readin' it wrong?

[Inziladun]

Interesting, Galin. I wish I had that particularHOME.

I would say that the thought of Men's destination to Mandos was indeed probably internal.

If no mortal fea ever returned after death though, I wonder about a couple of things.

After Gorlim (in The Silmarillion) was slain by Sauron, Beren had a dream in which a "wraith of Gorlim" came to him in a dream to confess his treachery and to warn Beren. Granted, it is stated explicitly to be a dream, but how could Gorlim's consciousness remain to give the warning in any form?

Also, when Túrin returns to the men of Brethil after slaying Glaurung, they initially are frightened, "thinking that it was his unquiet spirit".

So why, if Men's spirits could not return, was the idea of it in existence among Men?