Chapter 1: Of the Beginning of Time

[Aiwendil]

BoT-04: You're right - I copied and pasted less than I meant to.

BoT-15.1: It is curious that AAm has birds and flowers apparently existing during the age of the Lamps, while Ainulindale D as corrected says that they did not. But maybe that change to the Ainulindale post-dates those sections of AAm.

Anyway, I'm skeptical about substituting "leaves". It seems like too great a liberty, and is a very different image from the flowers. I'd still rather remove it.

[Aiwendil]

Actually, looking into BoT-15.1 further, I may have found the solution.

In AAm* (and in at least one emendation to the full AAm), Tulkas's wife becomes, instead of Nessa, the newly introduced 'Lëa the Young', a Maia. I had noticed this, but ignored it because the Valaquenta, which postdates AAm*, again has Nessa as his spouse and no mention of Lëa . However, in ignoring these changes I overlooked this:

It is told that in that feast of the Spring of Arda Tulkas espoused Lëa-vinya, fairest of the maidens of Yavanna, and Vana robed her in flowers that came then first to their opening; and she danced before the Valar...

So it seems to me that the idea now was that flowers did not bloom when the lamps were first made, but first bloomed at the time of this feast. I think we have no contradictions, then, if we do this:

BoT-15.15 And it is sung that in that feast of the Spring of Arda Tulkas espoused Nessa the sister of Oromë, and Vána robed her in flowers{,} [that came then first to their opening;] and she danced before the Valar upon the green grass of Almaren.

[ArcusCalion]

That is perfect!

[gondowe]

I know is very repetitive, but I have no time to rewiew all the posts in this thread and in the thread of chapter two. I'm very oxidized in following the threads. I was comparing the drafts of Aiwendil and Findegil and I'm a bit confused because it seems that the first part of the chapter contains parts that I used to compose the Ainulindale and the last part is included by me in the Chapter of Valinor.
If it is no too laborious and you are agree, it would be helpful for me to have an updated text of the chapters in a new post that can print and compare quietly and easily with mine to give my opinion on the structure (only) pitily I will not can give texts edited by me. Now, retranslate would be very painful.
Thanks and greetings.

[Findegil]

BoT-03: “fields of Aman” to “fields of Arda”: Why? It is a change from specific to unspecific. So why should the new comers of the Manwë party not decent into Arda first in the fields of Aman?

BoT-03.5: I propose to add a bit from LT here:

But Manwë was the brother of Melkor in the mind of Ilúvatar, and he was the chief instrument of the second Theme that Ilúvatar had raised up against the discord of Melkor; and he called unto himself others of his kin and many spirits both greater and less, and they went down into the fields of Aman and aided Manwë, lest Melkor should hinder the fulfilment of their labour for ever, and the Earth should wither ere it flowered. BoT-03.5<LT Then when all these great spirits were gathered together within the confines of the world Manwe spake to them, saying: "Lo now! How may the Valar abide in this fair place or be happy and rejoice in its goodness, if {Melko}[Melkor] be suffered to destroy it, and make fire and turmoil, so that we have nowhere to sit in peace, nor may the earth blossom or the designs of Ilúvatar come to being?"
Then all the Valar were angered with {Melko}[Melkor], and>{And} Manwë said unto Melkor: 'This kingdom thou shalt not take for thine own, wrongfully, for many others have laboured here {no less than thou}.' And there was strife between Melkor and the Valar …

BoT-08: That passage names the conflict the first battle. I am inclined to keep it simply for that reason.

BoT-08.5: The detail that this would add is small. And fro reasons of safety which Aiwendil explained I agree to omit it.

BoT-13b: Sorry Aiwendil, but I am not happy with you arrangement. Yes AAm should be preferred to avoid to much chopping up of the texts, but in this passages other sources have fuller accounts. The things they add might not be to very substantial but this phase of the story of Middle-earth is reported sparingly enough, so that I would like to include even tiny details. What about:

BoT-13b <AAm Now the Valar began their labours anew; and when the lands and the waters were ordered the Valar had need of light, that the seeds of Yavanna's devising might grow and have life. BoT-14b <LQ, Of Valinor and the two Trees But since Melkor had perverted light to a destroying flame, when he was gone and his fires were subdued> or buried beneath the primeval hills, there was need of light>. Aulë therefore wrought two great lamps, as it were of silver and of gold and yet translucent, and Varda filled them with hallowed fire, to give light to the Earth.> BoT-13.5 <Ainulindalë D {and}And the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days. One lamp they raised near to the North of Middle-earth, and it was named {[Forontë >]} Illuin; and the other was raised in the South, and it was named {[Hyarantë >]} Ormal; and the light of the Lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so that all was lit as it were in a changeless Day.

BoT-13.5: Again propose to add a bit from LT here:

… but wealth there was of her imagining, and nowhere more rich than in the midmost parts of the Earth, where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. BoT-13.7 <LT {Rather}[Now] was it {his}[Ulmo’s] counsel that each of the Valar should now depart and dwell amid those things that he loved upon Earth, nor should any seek to extend his sway beyond its just boundaries. In this there was some covert reflection upon Manwe and Ulmo, but of the {Gods}[Valar] some took his words{ in faith} and would use his advice, but others distrusted; and in the midst of their debate Ulmo arose and went to the Outermost Seas that were set beyond the Outer Lands. He loved not high words nor concourse of folk, and in those deep waters moveless and empty he purposed to dwell, leaving the governance of the Great and lesser seas to Ossë and {Onen}[Uinen] his vassals. Yet ever of his magic deep in his outermost sea-halls of Ulmonan he controlled the faint stirrings of the Shadowy Seas, and ruled the lakes and springs and rivers of the world.>BoT-13.8 <LT It was the rede of Aulë and of his wife {Palurien}[Yavanna], for they were the most grieved by the mischief of {Melko}[Melkor]'s turmoils and trusted his {promises}[departure] not at {all}[for long], that the {Gods}[Valar] should not separate as {he}[Ulmo] bid, lest {he}[Melkor] take it into his heart perchance to attack them singly or do hurt to their possessions. "Is he not," said they, "more powerful than any one of us save Manwe only? Rather let us build a dwelling wherein we may abide in joy together, faring only at need to the care and survey of our goods and fiefs. There even such as be of other mind may dwell at times, and find rest and pleasance after labours in the world." Now Aulë's mind and fingers itched already to be making things, and he urged this matter the more for that; and to most of the {Gods}[Valar] it seemed a good counsel, and they fared about the world seeking a place to dwell in.> And{ there} upon the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was made the first dwelling of the {gods}[Valar] when all things were young, and new-made green was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers{; and they were long content}.> BoT-15 <AAm But the Valar were seldom there gathered in company, …

gondowe, please see your pm.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

BoT-03: “fields of Aman” to “fields of Arda”: Why? It is a change from specific to unspecific. So why should the new comers of the Manwë party not decent into Arda first in the fields of Aman?

This was actually a mistake on my part. Tolkien originally wrote "Halls of Aman" here in Ainulindale C, and this was changed to "fields of Arda" in D.

BoT-03.5: I think Findegil's suggestion to use the Lost Tales passage here is good. However, I would then delete the phrase "lest Melkor should hinder the fulfilment of their labour for ever, and the Earth should wither ere it flowered", since exactly this motivation is made clear immediately after in the quote by Manwe:

But Manwë was the brother of Melkor in the mind of Ilúvatar, and he was the chief instrument of the second Theme that Ilúvatar had raised up against the discord of Melkor; and he called unto himself others of his kin and many spirits both greater and less, and they went down into the fields of Arda and aided Manwë, BoT-03.5 {lest Melkor should hinder the fulfilment of their labour for ever, and the Earth should wither ere it flowered}. <LT Then when all these great spirits were gathered together within the confines of the world Manwe spake to them, saying: "Lo now! How may the Valar abide in this fair place or be happy and rejoice in its goodness, if {Melko}[Melkor] be suffered to destroy it, and make fire and turmoil, so that we have nowhere to sit in peace, nor may the earth blossom or the designs of Ilúvatar come to being?"
Then all the Valar were angered with {Melko}[Melkor], and>{And} Manwë said unto Melkor: 'This kingdom thou shalt not take for thine own, wrongfully, for many others have laboured here {no less than thou}.' And there was strife between Melkor and the Valar …

BoT-08: It's true that the name of the war is given here, so I'm fine with keeping it.

BoT-13b: OK, I agree that there are some small details here that were missed in my version, and I think your suggestion is good.

BoT-13.7, -13.8: I see the appeal of the idea here, but for me taking the words of Melko and giving them to Ulmo is going a bit too far.

[ArcusCalion]

everything looks good.

BoT-13.7, -13.8: It cannot be Ulmo who says it, bc the next sentence says "In this there was some covert reflection upon Manwe and Ulmo" The way this is constructed it cannot be attributed to anyone besides Melkor without quite seeming to fit. The imagery of Ulmo being alone in the deep is also given later, in the next chapter, so we dont need to repeat it here. As for the second addition, I like it and I think it is in line with the later idea, minus the promises of Melkor. I would change

and trusted his {promises}[departure] not at {all}[for long],

to

and trusted [that] his {promises}[departure] [was] not {at all}[for long],

Also the bit about the words of [Ulmo] should be removed if we do not take up part 1.