Female Nazgûl???

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

The difference lies in the fact that toilets, agriculture and taverns that open every day are ordinary things in the ordinary world, part of the nonsubcreated substrate upon which Tolkien built his subcreation. The reader may take them as read. At the next remove, Tolkien engaged in what Shippey called calquing: adding elements of a known primary-world culture, such as the Anglo-Saxons, which invite the reader to fill in the Rohirric blank with his own knowledge or impression of the Old English.

But this can't be extended to things like Nazgul which came completely out of his head. In fact, I think the balance is very slightly tilted the other way in that the primary calque for Middle-earth is of course medieval Europe, a culture not noted for its gender equality.

And yet Huinesoron's "theory" (or wild speculation) concerns one of the perfectly canonical Ruling Queens of Númenor. You can't really argue that an author *wouldn't* include something if, you know, he did. I don't think Tolkien would have been violating the internal logic of his subcreation in any way by deciding to make Tar-Telperiën a Nazgûl- I just also can't see him totally forgetting to mention this interesting development if he had.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure my Lalaith = Gothmog II theory is watertight. Clearly that one did slip the Professor's mind.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And yet Huinesoron's "theory" (or wild speculation) concerns one of the perfectly canonical Ruling Queens of Númenor. You can't really argue that an author *wouldn't* include something if, you know, he did. I don't think Tolkien would have been violating the internal logic of his subcreation in any way by deciding to make Tar-Telperiën a Nazgûl- I just also can't see him totally forgetting to mention this interesting development if he had.

'ey! Less of the 'wild'. All of my theories are firmly grounded in facts. They just... twist them in very odd directions. (Eesh, and you haven't even seen the one about Tom Bombadil's palantir yet...)

Okay, so let's do this. Is there any possible evidence for female Nazgul?

-Let's start with the purpose of the Nazgul. They aren't sent out to fight - note how only the Witch-King takes the field at the Pelennor, and... I can't actually think of another Nazgul joining a pitched battle, ever? We know they can fight - they 'became... warriors' or however that went - but that's not their primary purpose.

What is? Well, we know that Sauron used the Seven to attempt to control at least one of the Houses of the Dwarves, and logic suggests he gave one to each ruling line. So the Nine were probably also initially used to control key rulers; heck, we don't even know for sure that Sauron knew about the eventual wraithing at the time!

The Nazgul were also rulers in Sauron's absence, running Morgul and Guldur even when he wasn't 'dead'. Part of the way they did this was to instill their underlings with terror. (Which is a great way to break them of any lingering kindness... it doesn't matter how nice they try to be, their servants will always feat them!)

Finally, they were his messengers, spies, and to an extent Special Ops. This last part is key; it would make sense for Sauron to select from diverse backgrounds, to get their knowledge and skills. A woman - who could not only get information out of other women more easily, but would likely be smaller and thus able to physically fit into more places - would be an excellent choice. (I don't recall the Nazgul actually being immaterial and able to walk through walls... certainly Bilbo couldn't while wearing the One!)

-The first reference to the concept of Ringwraiths occurs in HoME 6, 'The Return of the Shadow', where Gildor tells Bingo that the Black Riders are 'Servants of the Lord of the Ring - [people?] who have passed through the Ring'. Note the sadly-unclear word 'people' - not 'men'. Deliberate use of a gender-neutral term?

-In the same chapter (III), both Gildor and Gandalf tell Bingo that the Rings were made by Sauron, and 'he dealt them out lavishly, so that they might be spread abroad to ensnare folk'. Again the gender-neutral language - but also the idea that (at this stage) Tolkien didn't envisage Sauron specifically choosing his Ringwraiths. They were whoever found the Ring, much like Gollum. Do women ever wear rings? I think that's a yes.

-On the topic of women being smaller... the very first reference to a Black Rider describes them as 'looked like... a small [>short] man...'. Small, or short.

-Jumping now to Unfinished Tales, we of course have the generic-masculine 'ring that had enslaved him'. But after that, the Nazgul are called 'creatures'. The Witch-King has 'six companions', while Khamul (confirmed male here) has 'one other'. When Grima encounters the Ringwraiths, he addresses only one - 'Lord', he says, not 'Lords'. Once again, this is a lot of gender-neutral language.

Tolkien was uncharacteristically closed-mouthed about the Nazgul. What were their names? One is Khamul. What were their stations? Three were Lords of Numenor. How did they get their rings? Uh... from Sauron. And... that's all we know about their past.

That's deliberate. The Nazgul are deliberatelt faceless, mass-produced spies in the same way that Orcs are mass-produced soldiers. Just as Orcs lack the individual heroism that Tolkien loved from the old sagas, the Nazgul lacked the individual skill and bravery of their real-world counterparts. Tolkien can't tell us who they used to be, because that ruins the message.

But, the Orcs are rough-speaking chaps of the kind Tolkien might well have met in the trenches of the Somme; though 'industrialised', they are also inspired by his own experiences with line soldiers.

Did Tolkien know any spies? Not that I'm aware of. But would he have heard of them in the news? Certainly - and the likes of Mata Hari prove that 'female spy' was definitely a concept at the time. (Heck - the Nazgul aside, is there a named spy in Middle-earth besides Queen Beruthiel of the sneaky cats?) I don't feel that it's at all impossible that Tolkien would agree that one of the Nine could be just such a woman.

Y'know, like a certain power-hungry Ruling Queen of Numenor...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

In the same chapter (III), both Gildor and Gandalf tell Bingo that the Rings were made by Sauron, and 'he dealt them out lavishly, so that they might be spread abroad to ensnare folk'.

In ROTK though, Gandalf tells Frodo at Bag End only that Sauron gave the Nine to Men, and Gildor does not mention the Rings at all.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The Nazgul are deliberatelt faceless, mass-produced spies in the same way that Orcs are mass-produced soldiers.

Again though, isn't the later idea that it was the Noldor of Eregion, not Sauron, who actually fashioned the Rings of Power (excluding the One, of course)?
In the Unfinished Tales text The History of Galadriel and Celeborn it's clear Sauron took the Nine and the Seven from Celebrimbor. How then could the Nazgûl have been planned by Sauron if he did not himself make their rings? Granted, the Nine and the Seven were a product of his instruction, but I don't think that points toward the end result of mortal possessors of the Nine becoming undead wraiths to be something Sauron intended.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I don't feel that it's at all impossible that Tolkien would agree that one of the Nine could be just such a woman.

Y'know, like a certain power-hungry Ruling Queen of Numenor...

Well, you'd think the Númenóreans would have noticed if one of their rulers failed to die though. Unless the government just covered it up and called it 'fake news'.

[Huinesoron]

Yeah, sorry, Inziladun, I was lacking a bit in clarity there... the point I was driving at was that Tolkien (not Sauron) originally set things up so that female Ringwraiths were just as likely as male ones, and that it seems unlike him to completely drop such an idea.

Again, the later 'mass-produced' stuff was about Tolkien's intent. It's trivially true that Sauron could, physically, have made a female Nazgul; the question is whether Tolkien would have considered it.

And I have new evidence! (What can I say? Dawn brings fresh light.) How do you feel about this?

The Cats of Queen Beruthiel are a metaphor for the Nazgul.

To get it in straight away - a metaphor by Tolkien, not by Beruthiel or the Gondorians. But...

Beruthiel's cats are nine black and one (the leader) white. We think of Sauron as black or red, but he himself preferred to go in fair guise, and would doubtless use white as a colour if he could. The Black Riders, of course, are black.

Weak, obviously... except that these cats are spies, just like the Nazgul, reporting back to their white Lord. Except that these are cats, in a Legendarium where the only other famous cat was Tevildo... who was later replaced by Sauron. Except that everyone feared the Cats, just like they did the Nazgul. Except that Beruthiel's name was written out of history (she is remembered by an obvious epithet, 'Angry Queen'), while Sauron purportedly refuses to let his be spoken (the Mouth aside). Except Beruthiel directly caused the end of the first line of the Kings of Gondor, while the Nazgul eventually ended the last...

My point? In this short piece that has so many points of connection to the Nazgul, the lead character... is a woman.

(Next time: the unusual place of Tar-Telperien, prospective Nazgul, in the narrative of Numenor. Maybe.)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

-The first reference to the concept of Ringwraiths occurs in HoME 6, 'The Return of the Shadow', where Gildor tells Bingo that the Black Riders are 'Servants of the Lord of the Ring - [people?] who have passed through the Ring'. Note the sadly-unclear word 'people' - not 'men'. Deliberate use of a gender-neutral term?

No, a race-neutral term. At that very early stage (before even The Shadow of the Past, or alternatively the earliest draft of what would become that chapter) Tolkien envisioned the "people who have passed through the Ring" as including Men, Elves and Dwarves. He specifically mentioned how horrifyingly powerful "elf-wraiths" were.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tar-Telperien died in SA 1731. She was notable for two things: being the second ruling Queen, and being the first monarch to cling to the Sceptre into her dotage (although she did finally relinquish it shortly before her death).

Now, besides the whole "death" part scotching the Nazgul theory, even if we were to go all Alex Jones and suggest she faked it somehow, there's also the fact that she very visibly aged-- not something a keeper of a Great Ring would or could do.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

...there's also the fact that she very visibly aged-- not something a keeper of a Great Ring would or could do.

Where's that from? I've been researching the queens of Numenor of late (for entirely unrelated reasons), but haven't been able to find much more for Tar-Telperien than 'long lived, died in the same year she handed over the sceptre'. Is there a source for 'very visibly aged'? (It's actually a bit late for my other thing, but it's always worth finding out more...!)

Obviously the Tar-Nazgul theory assumes that she either faked her death, or was actually ousted in a palace coup that was hushed up. Since the only source texts I know of are of Numenorean origin (or rather, were written by Tolkien as in-universe documents of Numenorean origin...), they would be expected not to mention such a shameful event.

hS