The Return of the Shadow

[Findegil]

I am not fully in agreement with what you said about the Red Book and our work, but I agree to the conclusion you have drawn.

I as well agree to the rest of your proposals.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

In my quest to add in the rest of the LotR prologue, the bulk of usable material in Concerning Hobbits should go in this chapter. Here is how I lay it out.

I made a slight restructuring change. RS-SL-28 through RS-SL-30.6 I have moved to the very end of the chapter, and made some changes. Therefore, the paragrah from ORP talking about the Necromancer goes right into the paragraph talking about the Istari.

FY-HL-04.5 Concerning Hobbits

RS-SL-28 <HoME 12: TY4 About this time also the Periannath, of whom there are no earlier accounts among Elves or Men, are first mentioned in ancient tales. These were a strange small people, called by Men RS-SL-29 <per note 15 (of whose kindred they were maybe a branch)> Halflings, but by themselves (later in the west of Eriador) Hobbits. They are thought to have long dwelt in Greenwood the Great or near its western eaves, and in the vale of the upper Anduin. But at this time they began to move westward over the Misty Mountains into Eriador. It is said that they moved from their earlier dwellings because Men increased much at that time; and because a shadow fell on Greenwood, and it became darkened, and was called Mirkwood, for an evil spirit stirred there. The Harfoots were the first clan of Hobbits to enter Eriador{.}> RS-SL-29.5 <LotR, Prologue , and roamed over Eriador as far as Weathertop while the others were still in Wilderland.> RS-SL-29.6 <LotR Prologue The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; and they preferred highlands and hillsides.> RS-SL-29.7 <LotR Prologue The Harfoots had much to do with Dwarves in ancient times, and long lived in the foothills of the mountains.> RS-SL-29.8 <LotR Prologue They were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit, and far the most numerous. They were the most inclined to settle in one place, and longest preserved their ancestral habit of living in tunnels and holes.> RS-SL-30 <HoME 12: TY4 The Fallohides, a clan of the Periannath, crossed into Eriador and came down from the North along the River Hoarwell. RS-SL-30.05 <LotR Prologue The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands.> RS-SL-30.06 <LotR Prologue The Fallohides, the least numerous, were a northerly branch. They were more friendly with Elves than the other Hobbits were, and had more skill in language and song than in handicrafts; and of old they preferred hunting to tilling.> RS-SL-30.07 <LotR Prologue In Eriador they soon mingled with the other kinds that had preceded them, but being somewhat bolder and more adventurous, they were often found as leaders or chieftains among clans of Harfoots or Stoors.> About the same time the Stoors, another clan, came over the Redhorn Pass and moved RS-SL-30.1<LotR, Appendix B to the Angle or> south towards Dunland RS-SL-30.2<LotR, Prologue ; and there many of them long dwelt between Tharbad and the borders of Dunland>.> RS-SL-30.21 <LotR Prologue The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides.> RS-SL-30.22 <LotR Prologue They lingered long by the banks of the Great River Anduin, and were less shy of Men.[/b]>
RS-SL-30.3 <HoME 12; Of Dwarves and Men[/b] Hobbits {on the other hand} were in nearly all respects normal Men, .....
...
... before his overthrow at the end of the Second Age.]>
RS-SL-30.7 <LotR Prologue As for the Hobbits of the Shire, with whom these tales are concerned, in the days of their peace and prosperity ..... which they gave away freely and eagerly accepted.>
RS-SL-30.8 <LotR Prologue All Hobbits had originally lived in holes in the ground, or so they believed, ..... accustomed to build sheds and workshops.
The habit of building farmhouses and barns ...... words not found elsewhere in the Shire.
It is probable that the craft of building, ...... away from the hills in the west.
The craft of building may have come ...... peculiarity of hobbit-architecture.
The houses and the holes of Shire-hobbits were often large, and inhabited by large families. RS-SL-30.9 {(Bilbo and Frodo Baggins were as bachelors very exceptional, as they were also in many other ways, such as their friendship with the Elves.)} Sometimes, as in the case of the Tooks of Great Smials, ..... set out fair and square with no contradictions.>

FY-HL-04.7 Concerning Pipe-Weed

RS-SL-30.95 <LotR Prologue There is another astonishing thing about Hobbits of old that must be mentioned, an astonishing habit: they imbibed or inhaled, through pipes of clay or wood, the smoke of the burning leaves of an herb, which they called pipe-weed or leaf, RS-SL-30.97 {a variety probably of Nicotiana}. A great deal of mystery ..... his remarks in the introduction to his Herblore of the Shire may be quoted.
‘This,' he says, 'is the one art that we can .... Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, and Southern Star.
'How Old Toby came by the plant ..... family of Butterbur from time beyond record.
'All the same, observations that I have ..... all other things that he put his mind to.'>

RS-SL-30.9: I removed the reference to Bilbo and Frodo since it seemed out of place this early on. The reference to Merry is different, because he is being cited as a historical source.
RS-SL-30.97: I removed this bit, because it gives a real world genus for a plant, something that would not exist in-universe.

[Findegil]

FY-HL-04.5: This is supposed to be a sup-chapter title, right?

RS-SL-30.97: We do not wrigth in-univers texts. We even left in references to modern english. So I think this can stand.

With all the rest I agree.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

FY-HL-04.5: Indeed.

RS-SL-30.97: If you think so, then I will leave it.

[Findegil]

While reading here and there in our drafts I missed parts of the Istarí essay. It is a question where to fit them in. Part of it could be used in the chapter Note on the Five Wizards, but I think it is better placed in the Third Age material:

RS-SL-27<ORP Then the name of the forest was changed and Mirkwood it was called, for the nightshade lay deep there, and few dared to pass through, save only in the north where Thranduil’s people still held the evil at bay. Whence it came few could tell, and it was long ere even the Wise could discover it. It was the Shadow of Sauron and the sign of his return. For coming out of the wastes of the East he took up his abode in the south of the forest, and slowly he grew and took shape there again; in a dark hill he made his dwelling and wrought there his sorcery, and all folk feared the Sorcerer of Dol Guldur, and yet they knew not at first how great was their peril.>
RS-SL-31<ORP Even as the first shadows were felt in Mirkwood there appeared in the west of Middle-earth the Istari, whom Men called the Wizards. RS-SL-31.2<UT; The Istari Wizard is a translation of Quenya istar (Sindarin ithron): one of the members of an "order" (as they call it), claiming to possess, and exhibiting, eminent knowledge of the history and nature the World. The translation (through suitable in its relation to "wise" and other ancient words of knowing, similar to that of istar in Quenya) is not perhaps happy, since Heren Istarion or "Order of Wizards" was quite distinct from "wizards" and "magicians" of later legend; they belonged solely to the Third Age and then departed, and none save maybe Elrond, Círdan and Galadriel discovered of what kind they were or whence they came.
Among Men they were supposed (at first) by those that had dealings with them to be Men who had acquired lore and arts by long and secret study. They first appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, but for long they went about in simple guise, as it were of Men already old in years but hale in body, travellers and wanderers, gaining knowledge of Middle-earth and all that dwelt therein, but revealing to none their powers and purposes. In that time Men saw them seldom and heeded them little. But as the shadow of Sauron began to grow and take shape again, they became more active and sought ever to contest the growth of the Shadow, and to move Elves and Men to beware of their peril. Then far and wide rumour of their comings and goings, and their meddling in many matters, was noised about the Men; and Men perceived that they did not die, but remained the same (unless it were that they aged somewhat in looks), while the fathers and sons of Men passed away. Men, therefore, grew to fear them, even when they loved them, and they were held to be of the Elven-race (with whom, indeed, they often consorted).
Yet they were not so. For they came from over the Sea out of the Uttermost West; though this was for long known only to Círdan, Guardian of the Third Ring, master of the Grey Havens, who saw their landings upon the western shores. Emissaries they were from Lords of the West, the Valar, who still took counsel for the governance of Middle-earth, and when the shadow of Sauron began first to stir again took this means of resisting him. For with the consent of Eru they sent members of their own high order, but clad in bodies of as of Men, real and not feigned, but subject to the fears and pains and weariness of earth, able to hunger and thirst and be slain; though because of their noble spirits they did not die, and aged only by the cares and labours of many long years. And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.
> RS-SL-31.5<ORP None knew at that time whence they were, save Círdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea. But afterwards it was said among the Elves that they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West to contest the power of Sauron, if he should arise again, and to move Elves and Men and all living things of good will to valiant deeds. In the likeness of Men they appeared, old but vigorous, and they changed little with the years, and aged but slowly, though great cares lay on them; great wisdom they had, and many powers of mind and hand. Long they journeyed far and wide among Elves and Men, and held converse also with beasts and with birds; and the peoples of Middle-earth gave to them many names, for their true names they did not reveal. Chief among them were those whom the Elves called Mithrandir and Curunír, but Men in the North named Gandalf and Saruman. Of these Curunír was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast. RS-SL-32b{, and}In the Second Age had come tow others of the Istari RS-SL-32.2 <UT Istari , clad in sea-blue, >who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales {.}>RS-SL-32.5b<UT Istari Now the White Messenger in later days became known Elves as Curunír, the Man of Craft, in the tongue of Northern Men Saruman; but that was after he returned from his many journeys and came into the realm of Gondor and there abode. Of the Blue little was known in the West, and they had no names save Ithryn Luin "the Blue Wizards;" for they passed into the East with Curunír, but they never returned, and whether they remained in the East, pursuing there the purposes for which they were sent; or perished; or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not now known.{(3)} But none of these chances were impossible to be; for, strange indeed though this may seem, the Istari, being clad in bodies of Middle-earth, might even as Men and Elves fall away from their purposes. and do evil, forgetting the good in the search for power to effect it.
RS-SL-32.7{A separate passage written in the margin no doubt belongs here:
}For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time.>
RS-SL-32.8<ORP Radagast was the friend of all beasts and birds; but Curunír went most among Men, and he was subtle in speech and skilled in all the devices of smith-craft. Mithrandir was closest in counsel with Elrond and the Elves. He wandered far in the North and West and made never in any land any lasting abode; but Curunír journeyed into the East, and when he returned he dwelt at Orthanc in the Ring of Isengard, which the Númenóreans made in the days of their power.> RS-SL-33<UT Istari Note 4 Rhosgobel, {called "} the old home of Radagast {" in The Fellowship of the Ring II 3}, is said to have been {"}in the forest between the Carrock and the Old Forest Road RS-SL-34<The Hobbit near the southern borders of Mirkwood>.>
RS-SL-34.5<UT Istari But the last-comer was named among the Elves Mithrandir, the Grey Pilgrim, for he dwelt in no place, and gathered to himself neither wealth nor followers, but ever went to and fro in the Westlands from Gondor to Angmar, and from Lindon to Lórien, befriending all folk in times of need. Warm and eager was his spirit RS-SL-34.6{ (and it was enhanced by the ring Narya)}, for he was the enemy of Sauron, opposing the fire that devours and wastes with the fire that kindles, and succours in wanhope and distress; but his joy, and his swift wrath, were veiled in garments grey as ash, so that only those that knew him well glimpsed the flame that was within. Merry he could be, and kindly to the young and simple, and yet quick at times to sharp speech and the rebuking of folly; but he was not proud, and sought neither power not praise, and thus far and wide he was beloved among all those that were not themselves proud. Mostly he journeyed unwearingly on foot, leaning on a staff; and so he was called among Men of the North Gandalf, “the Elf of the Wand”. For they deemed him (though in error, as has been said) to be of Elven-kind, since he would at times works wonders among them, loving especially the beauty of fire; and yet such marvels he wrought mostly for mirth and delight, and desired not that any should hold him in awe or take his counsels out of fear.>

Another part should be used later. See my post in the chapter The End of the Third Age.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

This actually fits remarkably well here, as I did not think possible. Perhaps we should consider including also the subheading FY-HL-04.4: The Istari. I think this edit is very good, but I do have some changes to suggest.

Where it says in RS-SL-31.2:

Among Men they were supposed (at first) by those that had dealings with them to be Men who had acquired lore and arts by long and secret study. They first appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, ...

We need to change this because of our draft says that the Ithryn Luin came in the Second Age. Therefore I propose:

Among Men they were supposed (at first) by those that had dealings with them to be Men who had acquired lore and arts by long and secret study. RS-SL-31.2b {They first}The last of them appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, ...

This, I think, fixes the issue.

I am unsure why you ended RS-SL-31.2 where you did. The following paragraph of the essay you have not taken up, but I think it contains key information about the colors of Saruman and Radagast and Gandalf, so I think we should take it (with some edits):

... would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.
Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those that came to the North of Middle-earth, where there was most hope (because of the remnant of the Dúnedain and of the Eldar that abode there), the chiefs was five. The first to come {was} RS-SL-31.3 <late note came much earlier than the others, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.> In the Third Age, the first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. Others there were also: RS-SL-31.4 {two clad in sea-blue, and} one in earthen brown; and the last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff.>

This gives us some much-needed info. Both the edits I introduced were simply to make it clear that the two blue wizards had come much earlier.

In RS-SL-32.5b, there needs to be made a small edit:

Of the Blue little was known in the West, and they had no names save Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards;’ for they passed into the East RS-SL-32.6 {with Curunír}long ago, but they never returned, ....

Since they came into Middle-earth in the Second Age, and it was said that they immediately went into the East to combat Sauron there, and their efforts no doubt contributed to his lessened military might in the Second Age, they cannot have gone into the East with Curunir. Therefore this change must be made.

Those were the only changes I saw. This was done really well!

This is a different note, but gandalf made a point of wanting to include a portion of the essay given here in the chapter Of the Five Wizards and if I like his inclusion there, I may think it should be removed from this chapter, but I will wait until he gives an example of his draft.

[Findegil]

RS-SL-31.25 (sorry if this nomination is confusing, but RS-SL-31.2b would be a variant of RS-SL-31.2 e.g. taken up a § more): I see the issue with ‘They first appeared’, but I would like to solve it differently. What about this:

Among Men they were supposed (at first) by those that had dealings with them to be Men who had acquired lore and arts by long and secret study. They first RS-SL-31.3{appeared in}[became known in the North of] Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, ...

instead of ‘became known’ we can as well take ‘were seen’. My reason for this different change will become clearer in the next part of this post.

RS-SL-31.2b, RS-SL-31.3, RS-SL-31.4& RS-SL-32.6: Okay, I agree to take up the next § (therefore RS-SL-31.2b), but the edits don’t look quite right to me. As I always told, I am a ‘combiner’ for me it is not a contradiction that we are told, that the Blue Wizards came in the second age and worked all that time in the east and when it says later in this chapter that they passed into the east with Curunir. Curunir felt by all save Varda as the head of the order comes in the Third Age and wants to visit the East where the two Blue Wizards have been working all this long years. So what would be more natural for Curunir to call on them to meet him at the havens and give him a guided tour through ‘their territory’? And this visit to meet Curunir was probably the only time that the two Blue Wizards were seen in the North-West of Middel-earth. Thus from the view point of a chronologists of the Third Age ‘of the Blue little was known in the West, and they had no names save Ithryn Luin ‘the Blue Wizards;’ for they passed into the East with Curunir, but they never returned’. (Therefore I would the original unchanged text in RS-SL-32.6.) If seen thus it is fortunate that the text makes a difference between Curunir and Mithrandir as ‘the first to come’ and ‘the last to come’ versus Radagast and the Blue Wizards as ‘others there were also’. In that way we have two marked arrivals: the one of Curunir and the one of Mithrandir. Of the other three it is unclear when they arrived. For the Blue Wizards that is understandable because they came much earlier and probably even not via Lindon; to reach their final destination in the East other havens used by the Númenoreans at that time would be more suitable like Tharabad or Lond Daer. And for Radagast it is said that he came together with Gandalf, but since he was ‘only’ a companion like Pallando, the marked arrival is that of Gandalf. That means I would not change the original text at RS-SL-31.4 as this is just a reminder about the Blue Wizards that we already introduced much earlier.
But it remains RS-SL-31.3, where I agree that we have to do something. But as might be expected after such a long discussion, I suggest some other change then ArcusCalion. In what follows the removed sentence marked RS-SL-31.6 is included because I wanted a paragraph change here and to provide the source for my insertion at RS-SL-31.3:

RS-SL-31.2b<UT; The Istari Wizard is a translation ...
...
... would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.
Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those that came to the North of Middle-earth, where there was most hope (because of the remnant of the Dúnedain and of the Eldar that abode there), the chiefs were five. The first to come RS-SL-31.3<moved from below to the Grey Havens >the was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order.{(1)} Others there were also: two clad in sea-blue, and one in earthen brown; and the last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff. RS-SL-31.6{ But Círdan from their first meeting at the Grey Havens divined in him reverence, and he gave to his keeping the Third Ring, Narya the Red.}
>RS-SL-31.5<ORPNone knew at that time whence they were, ...

I saw gandalf85’s plans for including a part of this essay in Of the Five Wizards as well, but for me the parts I added here and in The End of the Third Age fit better where I placed them. But let us see what gandalf85 proposes.

Respectfully
Findegil