"The Fall of Gondolin" Due Out August 30th, 2018

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

In an early draft there was an obscure reference to a balrog's whip being "like a tail."

Rather like the way LOTR says the Balrog had a shadow that "reached out like two vast wings"?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Rather like the way LOTR says the Balrog had a shadow that "reached out like two vast wings"?

-_- to both of you. But it's too late, I'm now a Balrog Tail Truther. I shall seek out every reference that could possibly indicate a tail and spread the message far and wide.

Speaking of the Balrogs, I was intrigued to note that in the Lost Tales account, they are creatures of fire and iron, not the shadow of LotR (see for example Ecthelion's sword, which 'cleft the iron of them and did hurt to their fire'). Perhaps Durin's Bane had rusted away by the Third Age? Or is there an extra meaning to the dwarves mining too greedily?

There's a passage in the Lost Tale which pretty much proves Balrogs don't have (permanent) wings: just before Glorfindel's battle, we read that Melko has been cutting the wings off eagles to try and reverse-engineer them, but hasn't managed. Unless the balrogs are seen as his guinea pigs, they can't be winged.

Moving on, I'm finding myself fascinated by Idril. We know that Luthien is a powerful warrior-mage of sorts, but it seems Idril is just as powerful - but instead of a fighter, she's a leader.

She's a Seer, and has the confidence to act on her visions. On her word, Tuor organises a multi-year secret mining operation. She successfully rejected Maeglin's advances (in the Lost Tales version, where the later 'marry only of their own will' may not apply). She persuaded her father to allow Tuor's bodyguard the status of a Great House. She made mail for herself and her son, in secret, and had them both ready to defend at practically a moment's notice - and yes, even holding Earendil in one arm, she managed to fend off Maeglin for quite some time. Tolkien describes her as fighting like a tigress.

Looking now to the later 'Of Tuor', we get the interesting note that Voronwe carries Lembas with him - and we know from other sources that lembas is only made by the noble women of the elves. That should have been the duty of Turgon's wife, but she died; or of Aredhel, but she vanished and then died; I can easily imagine Idril taking up the task.

Then later still... Luthien once persuaded the Valar to delay the Gift of Men for Beren, at the cost of taking it on herself. If the tradition that Tuor is counted among the Eldar is true, how much more persuasive must Idril have been to pull that off?

Oh - and she did all of this barefoot and bareheaded (Eldar women cover their hair I guess), because Idril doesn't care what you think of her.

But the most interesting tidbit I found is this:

[Earendel] was in tears for the strange lights of red that played about the walls of the chamber where he slept; and tales that his nurse Meleth had woven him concerning fiery Melko at times of his waywardness came to him and troubled him.

Yep - Earendil's nanny told him that if he didn't behave, Morgoth would come and set him on fire. How much of a complex do you think the kid had after the city really did get burnt down...?

hS

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

There's a passage in the Lost Tale which pretty much proves Balrogs don't have (permanent) wings: just before Glorfindel's battle, we read that Melko has been cutting the wings off eagles to try and reverse-engineer them, but hasn't managed. Unless the balrogs are seen as his guinea pigs, they can't be winged.

No! Morgoth didn't make Balrogs, nor did he make their bodies. They were maiar and thus took forms of their own choosing. What's more, we know that winged forms were possible because Sauron--also an embodied maia--took the shape of a winged vampire (batlike, I guess) in the Lay of Leithian.

You thought you would be the one to slay this old dragon once and for all?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by obloquy

No! Morgoth didn't make Balrogs, nor did he make their bodies. They were maiar and thus took forms of their own choosing. What's more, we know that winged forms were possible because Sauron--also an embodied maia--took the shape of a winged vampire (batlike, I guess) in the Lay of Leithian.

You thought you would be the one to slay this old dragon once and for all?

Darn. I could argue your first point, but Vampire Thu-Sauron has slain me.

hS