LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 07 - The Pyre of Denethor

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Does it not bother anyone else that every time there is some surprise revelation Gandalf goes "Oh yeah, I knew that for a long time!". I think the only one he admitted to not knowing or suspecting was the Balrog. It bothers me, like he has to show that he knows best even though he didn't do anything about it when there was still a chance to prevent something. Denethor's palantir gazing was a topic of rumour as far as Rohan, though no one actually suspected a palantir (except know-it-all Gandalf of course).

Heh, that's actually something I like about Gandalf's personality (maybe because in my younger days I affected the same trait on occasion ).

In The Hobbit there's that line about Gandalf not minding explaining his cleverness more than once, and that's just the way he rolls, so to speak. I cut him some slack: he's an immortal being wearing a mortal form and subject to bodily constraints; he has to use guile and persuasion (with the very limited expression of raw power) to induce lesser beings more concerned with their own problems to pay attention to Sauron; and he also must deal tactfully with the big egos who think they should be the leaders against Sauron's menace. Maybe pointing out when he's right is an effort to put across the idea of "See? I was right again. When will you bloody listen to me?"

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So if Gandalf thought this was the source of Denethor's knowledge and also his madness, could he have not used his suspicion to convince Denethor he is not all-knowing and all-powerful? Convince him that Gandalf can know something too, and through his own cleverness rather than a magic item? It's debatable if Denethor could have been scared or humbled into sanity or at least submission, but could Gandalf have at least tried? I'm not making a case against Gandalf here, but it just bugs me that - once again - he claims he suspected the thing after it happens.

Gandalf seems particularly rankled by Denethor's arrogant assumption that he's pulling a fast one on everyone, friends and enemies alike, with too much trust in his own abilities and authority. I'm pretty sure Gandalf overtly telling Denethor he knew about the Stone would have been counterproductive, since D was already suspicious of Gandalf and his motives, and the death of Boromir didn't exactly raise Gandalf's status with him either.