Akallabêth

[gandalf85]

I will try to respond to both Fin and Arcus:

[Airships]: I hadn't even considered the idea that the passage is referring to a period after the third age but before our modern discovery of flight. You guys are right, this passage could refer to that time period. I suppose this passage doesn't break any of the rules set forth for the project, and I don't have any other objections to it, so I vote we keep it.

1) Got it.

2) The word "became" would work if we had already been introduced to the character, I think "was" works best.

3) OK, I agree.

4) I agree, I like Fin's recommendation too.

6) I think this rule makes sense.

7) Re-reading it, I think it does work, I vote we keep it.

Arcus, no problem! You guys have done the vast majority of the heavy lifting, I think you've done an admirable job combining so many disparate sources into something coherent.

[Findegil]

2) My problem with ‘was’, is that I think we tell later in this chapter how Pharazôns becomes ‘even more restless and eager for wealth and power than his father‘.

Posted by gandalf85:

You guys have done the vast majority of the heavy lifting, I think you've done an admirable job combining so many disparate sources into something coherent.

Thanks for the flowers, but I fully agree to ArcusCalion, that critisem of readers like you bring this work a great deal forward.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Arvegil145]

Can someone tell me if the 'First Phase' of the Later Quenta (in Morgoth's Ring) was written before or after the last version of the Akallabeth?

I ask because in the 'First Phase' there is an occurrence of the name 'Avallone' used for the entire island, instead of the easternmost city:

*[footnote to the text] 'Avallónë' also it was after called, signifying the isle that lies nighest unto the Valar in Valinor. Quoth Ælfwine. [Placed in the body of the text by the typist of LQ 1 but subsequently reinstated as a footnote.]

Also, the etymology of the element -lone in 'Avallone' translates to "Isle" - you'd think that a better name for a haven would be something like 'Avallonde' (i.e. -londe meaning "Haven"), but that's just speculation.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Can someone tell me if the 'First Phase' of the Later Quenta (in Morgoth's Ring) was written before or after the last version of the Akallabeth?

I believe the First Phase of LQ is from about 1951, while the latest version of the Akallabeth is from c. 1958.

[Arvegil145]

I see - by '1958', do you mean just additions and corrections? Since I was under the impression that the final version of the Akallabeth story (as such) was written by Tolkien around c. 1951 or so.


Anyway - the motivation behind my previous reply is that I'm not quite sure that Tolkien made up his mind about whether or not 'Avallone' was the name of the city or the name for Tol Eressea as a whole.

And if we are going to keep the version where the name refers to the city/harbour in the east of Tol Eressea, I think we should rename it to 'Avallonde', since:

1) The name is already attested

2) The element '-londe' means 'Harbour' - as opposed to '-lone' (meaning 'Island')

[Findegil]

Avallone could be the name of the habour, even so '-lone' means island. It could be a shortend version of some longer name meaning things like the 'habour on the Island near Valinor'

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

I would like to say I am categorically against changing the name to Avalonde based on a hunch. Even if it seems odd in meaning, it is not for us to make up new names in this way it seems to me.