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Old 01-28-2019, 08:30 AM   #4
mhagain
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No no no no no.


The Valar and Maiar are of the same order: they are both Ainur who were created before the world and who came into the world when it was made real.


So any statement about "of the same order" as the Valar can be taken as also including the Maiar.


The only difference between a Vala and a Maia (note the correct singular forms) is degree of power. To quote from the Valaquenta:
Quote:
Then those of the Ainur who desired it arose and entered into the World at the beginning of Time .... The Great among these spirits the Elves name the Valar.... With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servants and helpers.
Vala/Valar and Maia/Maiar are not taxonomic classifications; they merely describe a placing in a hierarchy based on degree of power, but Valar and Maiar are otherwise the same class of being.


What was Gandalf?
Quote:
Many are my names in many countries, he said. Mithrandir among the Elves; Tharkun to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incanus; in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.
So he was, or at least claimed to be, a being named Olórin, but what was Olórin?
Quote:
Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin .... In later days he was the friend of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and took pity on their sorrows; and those who listened to him awoke from despair and put away the imaginations of darkness.
The important thing to realise is that this text was not written by CJRT; the original Valaquenta text is given in HoMe X: Morgoth's Ring, and likewise identifies Olórin as one of the Maiar.
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