The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > The New Silmarillion > Translations from the Elvish - Public Forum
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2019, 02:57 PM   #1
ArcusCalion
Quentingolmo
 
ArcusCalion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
ArcusCalion has just left Hobbiton.
Oh good catch Fin! I have a few points.

First, I would make this slight change for smoothness of transition:
Quote:
... It was thus a piece of singular good fortune for Gollum that the Nine Walkers arrived when they did.>
HR-SL-07b <HR text B
Meanwhile, In the panic of the first assault on Osgiliath, when the Witch-king was allowed to reveal himself briefly in his full terror, the Nazgűl crossed the bridge at night and dispersed northwards.> Thus Sauron tested ....
Second, in this narrative you've made, the Nazgul search the Vale of Anduin twice. Is this what Tolkien intended? It makes no sense to me that they would search the Vale of Anduin twice, especially since they find nothing both times.

Last edited by ArcusCalion; 02-05-2019 at 03:35 PM.
ArcusCalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 06:55 PM   #2
gandalf85
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
gandalf85 has just left Hobbiton.
Great catch, Fin! I think it's feasible the Nazgul would search the Anduin Vale twice because the area is rather large, and Sauron himself suspected it was where the Shire was based on information from Gollum. I found a few typos/grammatical issues.

A slight change to HR-SL-05.2 to make it sound smoother:
Quote:
The news evidently HR-SL-05.2b{did not reach}reached the Nazgűl commander of Dol Guldur
Some typos in this part (Marshed and visted):

Quote:
}/Sauron/ learned that Gollum (who disappeared into the {D[ead]}/Dead/ Marshed) has been captured and is with Thranduil, and that Gandalf has visted that realm.{ *Say sometime early in April.}
There is also a change of tense from past to present. Fixing these issues:

Quote:
}/Sauron/ learned that Gollum (who disappeared into the {D[ead]}/Dead/ Marshes) {has}had been captured and {is}was with Thranduil, and that Gandalf has visited that realm.{ *Say sometime early in April.}
In HR-SL-05.3:

Quote:
possibly HR-SL-05.3 {a month later} <LotR Companion; The Council of Elrond; 257 (I:270). sometimes early in April
I don't have a copy of the LotR Companion, but this should be "sometime".

I think there should be more punctuation to the sentence starting "At first the Nazgul...". I added a semicolon and a comma:

Quote:
At first the Nazgűl {investigate}investigated Anduin’s Vale,{ ...} but {can}could find no trace of the Ring or ‘Baggins’; {...}/therefore/, some {begin}began to investigate Rohan.{ ...}
"in" is repeated twice in the next sentence. "belived" should be "believed", "extraorninarily" should be "extraordinarily", "Isengad" should be "Isengard", "whishing" should be "wishing", "Tharanduil" should be "Thranduil" and "Tow" should be "two".

Other than that, I have one question:

Quote:
Though he {dislikes}disliked Gandalf intensely and {is v[ery]}was /very/ jealous of him, he {belives G[andalf]}believed /Gandalf/ {knows}knew something vital about the Ring because the Nazgűl {[?ask]}/knew/ of the Shire which {has}had always been a great concern of Gandalf, and because his agents {have}had discovered that it {is extraord[inarily]}was /extraordinarily/ closely guarded; /and /also that Gandalf {is}was now actually there since {12 }April the twelfth.
Saruman believes Gandalf knew something vital about the Ring because the Nazgul knew about the Shire. How does Saruman know what the Nazgul know? This is before the conversation between Saruman and the Nazgul, right?
gandalf85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 02:40 PM   #3
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Dooble search of the Anduin Vale: Wenn we read the original Hunt for the Ring text the Vale is as well searched twice (but proberbly not by Nazgűl): The Witch-king decisded to search there even so he got the message from Khaműl that no trace of the Shire could be found. And in the new context we here from the Nazgűl proling in Rohan and Dunland that they are ‘rather timid and uneffective’ without their leader. So for me it is reasonable that the Witch-king repeated the search considering that he had no better information.
Now to the other remarks:
HR-SL-02.5b: Agreed.

Mashed and visted, “in”, “belived”, “extraorninarly”, “Isengad”, “whishing”, “Tharanduil” and “Tow”: Thanks for catching. These are real typos of mine for sure. And I also missed to do the time change in that sentence with the Mashed and visted. But must we not as well change ‘has visited’ to ‘had visted’?

HR-SL-05.3: Right, and so it is in the original text, as can be seen at the end of the sentence with Mashed and visted.

Punctuation in “At First the Nazgűl ...”: Agreed.

Saruman belives Gandalf knew something vital about the Ring: In the new version of the story springing from the fact that Radagast must have more time, Saruman is visted much earlier (before the attack on Osgiliath) by some Nazgűl after they did not find any trace of teh Shire in the Anduin Vale. Radagast is concerned about that search and reaches Isengard to the advantage of Saruman shortly after the Nazgűl had been there.
The Second visit is not mentioned in the text from LotR Companion; The Council of Elrond; 257 (I: 270)., but it also not denied. For me it seems clear that two or three Nazgűl visited Saruman and stayed in that area until the Wtich-king himself collected them all for another visit to Isengard. At the fist visit Sauron suspects only the motives of Saruman st the time of the second visit he is sure that Saruman is betraying him. But in both cases the Nazgűl involved did not have the full picture, so that Saruman could decive them.

Respectfully
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 06:55 PM   #4
gandalf85
Wight
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
gandalf85 has just left Hobbiton.
Yes, it should be "had visited". I missed that one.

Regarding the Nazgul and Saruman, that makes more sense if there are two visits.
gandalf85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:21 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.