Lord of the Rings TV series gets multi-season order at Amazon

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Do we know what they have the rights to? The rumours at the time of the announcement were that Amazon had been negotiating with the Estate, which they shouldn't have to do if they were just using the same rights as New Line did. And with Christopher retired (and retired at a very pointed time), it's not impossible that they've acquired the right to use Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, at least.

As for Young Aragorn: yes, they did indeed. So why are they posting maps featuring Calenardhon and Lindon? The latter could be a mistake; the former would require them to have forgotten about Rohan, which Aragorn will probably actually visit.

hS

They have the rights to the Hobbit and LOTR and the appendices. They don't have the right to the Silmarillion or the unfinished tales or the HoME.

As for compressing the history, they must know that's going to enrage the Tolkien fanbase. Shadows of Mordor was popular because of its innovative and dynamic game mechanics, not its story, Amazon won't be able to use that to get away with it here.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

As for compressing the history, they must know that's going to enrage the Tolkien fanbase. Shadows of Mordor was popular because of its innovative and dynamic game mechanics, not its story, Amazon won't be able to use that to get away with it here.

I doubt the opinions of "traditional" fans have been much of a factor in the project. They're after the movie fans who only want more of the same.

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I doubt the opinions of "traditional" fans have been much of a factor in the project. They're after the movie fans who only want more of the same.

My question would then be how exactly are they planning on marketing that? The PR speak is going to be glorious in how inane it is, "we respect Tolkien's lore and detail, for creativity sake, we are making creative adaptations of the background material" or something equally PRy and corporate faced.

[Huinesoron]

Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,

"Laurelindorenan". Whatever this is, it's NOT the late Third Age.

"Enedhwaith" is interesting; Tolkien Gateway says that the published book used "Enedwaith", without the h, but Tolkien adopted the h in later writings. Christopher used "Enedwaith" in Unfinished Tales.

"Ras Morthil" is notable only because the Druedain lingered there for a long time.

"Belfalas" is very potentially interesting, because of its status as a Numenorean Faithful stronghold.

In a nice touch, the compass on the Twitter version (but not on the browsable map) has been updated with the correct Tengwar labels - Formen, Romen, Hyarmen, Numen.

hS

EDIT: Someone has pointed out that there were 3 days between the first and second maps, and 7 between the second and third. So... expect another one on the 6th March? ~hS

[Rhun charioteer]

If the show isn't about Aragorn, I wonder what it could possibly be about.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

If the show isn't about Aragorn, I wonder what it could possibly be about.

The most obvious possibility, given the Ring Poem, remains the forging of the rings and the War of the Elves and Sauron. So the question is, how much of that is in the appendices? It turns out, quite a bit!

Originally Posted by Appendices, cobbled together

The Second Age
These were the dark years for Men of Middle-earth. but the years of the glory of Númenor. Of events in Middle-earth the records are few and brief, and their dates are often uncertain. In the beginning of this age many of the High Elves still remained. Most of these dwelt in Lindon west of the Ered Luin; but before the building of the Barad-dûr many of the Sindar passed eastward. and some established realms in the forests far away, where their people were mostly Silvan Elves. Thranduil, king in the north of Greenwood the Great, was one of these. In Lindon north of the Lune dwelt Gil-galad, last heir of the kings of the Noldor in exile. He was acknowledged as High King of the Elves of the West. In Lindon south of the Lune dwelt for a time Celeborn, kinsman of Thingol; his wife was Galadriel, greatest of Elven women. She was sister of Finrod Felagund, Friend-of-Men, once king of Nargothrond, who gave his life to save Beren son of Barahir.

Later (750) some of the Noldor went to Eregion, upon the west of the Misty Mountains, and near to the West-gate of Moria. This they did because they learned that mithril had been discovered in Moria. The Noldor were great craftsmen and less unfriendly to the Dwarves than the Sindar; but the friendship that grew up between the people of Durin and the Elven-smiths of Eregion was the closest that there has ever been between the two races. Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Fëanor.

1200
Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-galad refuses to treat with him; but
the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans begin to make permanent
havens.
c. 1500
The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They
begin the forging of the Rings of Power.

Of [Thrain's] Ring something may be said here. It was believed by the Dwarves of Durin's Folk to be the first of the Seven that was forged; and they say that it was given to the King of Khazad-dûm, Durin III, by the Elven-smiths themselves and not by Sauron, though doubtless his evil power was on it, since he had aided in the forging of all the Seven.

c. 1590
The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.

Throughout the Third Age the guardianship of the Three Rings was known only to those who possessed them. But at the end it became known that they had been held at first by the three greatest of the Eldar: Gil-galad, Galadriel and Círdan.

c. 1600
Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dûr. Celebrimbor
perceives the designs of Sauron.
1693
War of the Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden.
1695
Sauron's forces invade Eriador. Gil-galad sends Elrond to Eregion.
1697
Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond
retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.
1699
Sauron overruns Eriador.
1700
Tar-Minastir sends a great navy from Númenor to Lindon. Sauron is defeated.
1701
Sauron is driven out of Eriador. The Westlands have peace for a long while.

The power of Moria endured throughout the Dark Years and the dominion of Sauron, for though Eregion was destroyed and the gates of Moria were shut, the halls of Khazad-dûm were too deep and strong and filled with a people too numerous and valiant for Sauron to conquer from without. Thus its wealth remained long unravished, though its people began to dwindle.

The main things missing seem to be:
-The name of Ost-in-Edhil.
-The details of how exactly the Three were hidden, including Celebrimbor's love for Galadriel.
-Celebrimbor being used as a banner by Sauron.
-The Siege of Imladris, though this is pretty well implied.

Obviously there's a lot of detail around Galadriel which isn't found in the LotR license, but if you stay away from her, you can tell virtually the entire story.

The second possibility, to my mind, remains the Fall of Arnor. The presence of Calenardhon on the map points at this, though Laurelindorenan argues against it. So far as I can recall, the final fall of Arthedain and the breaking of the Line of Kings comes entirely from the Appendices, so no licensing issues there!

It's also possible that the series is about Young Aragorn, but starts with a historical episode, a prologue writ large, showing how all this came about: the fall of Eregion provoked the first involvement of Numenor in the affairs of Middle-earth, while the fall of Arthedain obviously gave us Aragorn's line. Seems like an odd thing to tease, though.

hS

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The most obvious possibility, given the Ring Poem, remains the forging of the rings and the War of the Elves and Sauron. So the question is, how much of that is in the appendices? It turns out, quite a bit!



The main things missing seem to be:
-The name of Ost-in-Edhil.
-The details of how exactly the Three were hidden, including Celebrimbor's love for Galadriel.
-Celebrimbor being used as a banner by Sauron.
-The Siege of Imladris, though this is pretty well implied.

Obviously there's a lot of detail around Galadriel which isn't found in the LotR license, but if you stay away from her, you can tell virtually the entire story.

The second possibility, to my mind, remains the Fall of Arnor. The presence of Calenardhon on the map points at this, though Laurelindorenan argues against it. So far as I can recall, the final fall of Arthedain and the breaking of the Line of Kings comes entirely from the Appendices, so no licensing issues there!

It's also possible that the series is about Young Aragorn, but starts with a historical episode, a prologue writ large, showing how all this came about: the fall of Eregion provoked the first involvement of Numenor in the affairs of Middle-earth, while the fall of Arthedain obviously gave us Aragorn's line. Seems like an odd thing to tease, though.

hS

I guess you could do that and tie it into the LOTR movie prologue. Maybe get Cate Blanchett to narrate again.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The main things missing seem to be:
-The name of Ost-in-Edhil.
-The details of how exactly the Three were hidden, including Celebrimbor's love for Galadriel.
-Celebrimbor being used as a banner by Sauron.
-The Siege of Imladris, though this is pretty well implied.

I have no recolection of this at all, very disconcerting!

This puts my entire self-image as a Tolkien-nerd into question...

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

They have the rights to the Hobbit and LOTR and the appendices. They don't have the right to the Silmarillion or the unfinished tales or the HoME.

Thanks; I didn't realise we'd had confirmation that the bizarre assertion from the news article back when, that '[t]he deal Amazon landed with the estate gives it access to nearly all of the material in the Middle Earth saga (although not 100% of it)', was incorrect. Good to know!

For anyone still thinking about the map, I've just posted a thread over in Books that includes evidence that those eastern mountains are actually Tolkien's own creation, though not necessarily the fabled Orocarni.

hS