Fall of Gondolin

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Tuor and Maeglin are polar opposites.

One is the embodiment of light, while the other is the embodiment of darkness. One had exceptional luck, while the other didn't. One survived, the other did not.

If you didn't tell me who you're talking about I would have guessed Tuor and Turin - their fates are also similarly contrasted. But I agree that within the context of Gondolin Maeglin fits well too.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If you didn't tell me who you're talking about I would have guessed Tuor and Turin - their fates are also similarly contrasted. But I agree that within the context of Gondolin Maeglin fits well too.

I wonder if that was intentional on Tolkien's part.


I'll also be receiving the book on Thursday! So excited!

[Urwen]

The book says that there were rumors that Meglin had Orc blood in his veins. What do you think of that?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The book says that there were rumors that Meglin had Orc blood in his veins. What do you think of that?

I'd class it with the rumours of 'fairy' blood in the Took family - a baseless assertion made to explain someone being different from the norm.

If there was something to it, it would say very worrying things about Eol's ancestry. He's an undefined kinsman of Thingol, so perhaps we would postulate his recent ancestry being elves who stayed east of the Blue Mountains, and then had to flee. Presumably we would be looking at involuntary interbreeding - ie, rape - though I suppose anything is possible.

The HoME version of the Fall explicitly names Eol and Isfin as Meglin's parents, so it seems some version of that story was in place; but the claim that he 'was come of an ancient house, though now were its numbers less than others' suggests that Eol might have been an elf of Gondolin.

And indeed, yes; there's a note from Christopher here:

Originally Posted by HoME II - The Fall of Gondolin - Note 4, Isfin and Eol

The earliest version of this tale is found in the little Lost Tales notebook, as follows:

Isfin and Eol

Isfin [Aredhel] daughter of Fingolma [Fingolfin] loved from afar by Eol (Arval) of the Mole-kin of the Gnomes. He is strong and in favour with Fingolma and with the Sons of Feanor (to whom he is akin) because he is a leader of the Miners and searches after hidden jewels, but he is illfavoured and Isfin loathes him.

It's pretty clear that Tolkien adopted this story wholesale for Maeglin and Idril, but the retention of Isfin and Eol's names suggests they may have kept it too. CT notes that there's no connection of this story to Gondolin, but if we imagine it being retained, that would almost have to be the setting. Quite how Eol could be kin to the Feanorians is impossible to say; I think at this point the whole 'everyone part of the House of Finwe' structure wasn't in place.

hS

[Urwen]

But don't forget that Orc are corrupted Elves. Maybe one of those sired Eol.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

But don't forget that Orc are corrupted Elves. Maybe one of those sired Eol.

Well, yes, which is how they could breed at all. But the orc-taint apparently breeds true; note Saruman's half-orcs, who certainly weren't 'half-corrupted'. So Eol couldn't be a child of a pair of Orcs - he would need at least one Elvish parent.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Well, yes, which is how they could breed at all. But the orc-taint apparently breeds true; note Saruman's half-orcs, who certainly weren't 'half-corrupted'. So Eol couldn't be a child of a pair of Orcs - he would need at least one Elvish parent.

hS

The child of Orc and Elf would still have Orc blood in their veins, and pass said blood to next generation too.