Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Yes. I wish I had a friend like Beleg. That friendship was so good while it lasted.



By the way, you should read Kalevala. I think you'll find the main character of that poem interesting.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

By the way, you should read Kalevala. I think you'll find the main character of that poem interesting.

I read a synopsis, I am somewhat familiar with it. I would indeed like the story - just maybe not in that format.


Going back to the discussion of Turin and the Curse and the what-ifs, I came upon this interesting quote:

Originally Posted by COH

Nellas of Doriath never saw him again, and his shadow passed from her.

This makes it sound like Turin's "shadow" was an ever-present entity, and one that he would not have avoided had he stayed in Doriath. In a way it implies that whatever he does and whoever he associates with will be overcast by it. If he didn't ruin Finduilas, he would have ruined Nellas. If he didn't ruin Nargothrond, it would have been Doriath.

And I still stand by my earlier argument that whatever he does he will worse than fail by the nature of the Curse, but his problem is that he always rises high and so the stakes are always high and the disaster is big. He can't keep his head down, not meddle in the big affairs, keep to himself in a quiet way. No, he has to lead and lead big, as big as he can, so the crash is big too. Had he lead some quiet reclusive life on a farmstead or in the woods or something, his doom might have been proportionally small. And he tried for a while - with the outlaws, and later before his integration into Brethil - but he just can't be less than he is. He is a great man, a great fighter, a great leader, and he can't not be the best he can be.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I read a synopsis, I am somewhat familiar with it. I would indeed like the story - just maybe not in that format.


Going back to the discussion of Turin and the Curse and the what-ifs, I came upon this interesting quote:



This makes it sound like Turin's "shadow" was an ever-present entity, and one that he would not have avoided had he stayed in Doriath. In a way it implies that whatever he does and whoever he associates with will be overcast by it. If he didn't ruin Finduilas, he would have ruined Nellas. If he didn't ruin Nargothrond, it would have been Doriath.

And I still stand by my earlier argument that whatever he does he will worse than fail by the nature of the Curse, but his problem is that he always rises high and so the stakes are always high and the disaster is big. He can't keep his head down, not meddle in the big affairs, keep to himself in a quiet way. No, he has to lead and lead big, as big as he can, so the crash is big too. Had he lead some quiet reclusive life on a farmstead or in the woods or something, his doom might have been proportionally small. And he tried for a while - with the outlaws, and later before his integration into Brethil - but he just can't be less than he is. He is a great man, a great fighter, a great leader, and he can't not be the best he can be.

I believe that, had he stayed in Doriath, and took Nellas as his wife, the curse would have been avoided.


Alternatively, since Beleriand is Morgoth's domain, if he and his family fled Beleriand, they would have been safe from the curse. And Morgoth would have been left with Hurin alone.


I wrote a what-if story about what would have happened if Beleg and Nellas tried to waylay the Curse.

[Urwen]

What would you say if there existed an Elf with Orcish heritage?

[Urwen]

This one gets it

This one too

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

This one too

Yeah, this one gets it - except for the part that even weird teenagers aren't justified in committing felony.

I heard a parent say about their autistic child that the illness might be an explanation for the child's behaviour, but it is not an excuse. I think that's a sentence that all people should live by and should be judged by, regardless of what may serve as explanation for what goes on in their lives. We need to know the explanation - the "why" is the essence of every person, and the reason we feel any emotion about them. However, there is a line for everyone, and once that line is crossed, it's crossed. It's possible to relate to Maeglin, pity him, empathize with him, wish better luck or chances for him, seek the sources of his personality, etc. - and yet still find him guilty and deserving of the consequences that he got. An explanation is not always an excuse.

[Urwen]

If you think I don't know that, then look at my signature. If I found M[a]eglin completely blameless, I wouldn't have this signature.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I believe that, had he stayed in Doriath, and took Nellas as his wife, the curse would have been avoided.

Does the quote not seem to you like the reason Nellas was spared the Curse was only because Turin left her, did not associate with her any longer?

Originally Posted by Urwen

Alternatively, since Beleriand is Morgoth's domain, if he and his family fled Beleriand, they would have been safe from the curse. And Morgoth would have been left with Hurin alone.

I thought Morgoth claimed his domain to be the whole of Arda. Arguably though his presence was mainly in Beleriand. I don't know if there's a way to show one way or another, but he did try to put the whole world under his power, and thinking thinking he has ousted the influence of the Valar in the world beyond Aman he might have claimed all of it for his own. Also, curious about when his interactions with Men started. I recall the coming of Men only vaguely, and I'm not sure if Morgoth's messengers could already have been at work before the Men came close to Beleriand. There are also scattered references to the Fathers of Men fleeing from some darkness, and to Morgoth poisoning the Gift so that Men would fear death; that must have happened somewhere early on.

But regardless, don't think that would have worked anyways given that Turin's life passion was to fight Morgoth, something that's hard to do when you're a million miles away.

Originally Posted by Urwen

I wrote a what-if story about what would have happened if Beleg and Nellas tried to waylay the Curse.

Does it involve both of them end up dying horribly?

(I'm kidding. Fanfic is where we can have our favourite characters stay alive and choose the righter option, even as we know it can't be this way.)