Tidbits of Curiosity

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Fair; but resist what? I've always read that as Frodo succumbing to temptation, not compulsion. I suppose you could see that as a form of possession - but I don't think arguing 'it wasn't Maeglin's fault, Morgoth just gave him an overwhelming temptation (to murder his cousin's son and kidnap her)' is going to win any points in Urwen's eyes...

hS

Same thing, by then. Compelling him to yield to temptation. We're talking very, very extreme pressure.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The Translations are said to be from Rivendell's records, which presumably were previously records in Lindon, but how did they get into there?

I've always gone with the head-canon that in the last days of Arthedain, the library of Fornost or copies thereof were sent to Rivendell for safekeeping. After all, Tolkien in his later period keeps telling us that the Silmarillion incorporated (garbled?) Mannish traditions- which wouldn't have been the case with material written in Lindon or by Elrond (or Glorfindel*)

Why would Bilbo have used these Arnorian materials ("from the Elvish" because written in Sindarin)? Probably because Elvish historiography was in a style relatively alien to mortal minds, written by and for conditional immortals with perfect recall. History written by Men would have been more comprehensible to a Hobbit.

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*Another potential source for the Fall of Gondolin

[Urwen]

What are your opinions on Feanor?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Urwen

What are your opinions on Feanor?

A miniature version of Morgoth.

Not that Feanor became or even aspired to be a world-conquering Dark Lord, but rather that his fall was of the same flavor. Both were the greatest of their kind, possessed of the greatest gifts and unrivaled in their primacy- from which grew pride, and arrogance, and a belief that they were peers of an order greater than they (in Feanor's case, the Valar, in Morgoth's case, Eru Himself). As a side note, compare Varda's rejection of Melkor with Galadriel's rejection of Feanor.

[Urwen]

I believe that the one Melkor really loved was Nienna, not Varda. Just like the one Feanor really loved was Nerdanel, not Galadriel.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I believe that the one Melkor really loved was Nienna, not Varda. Just like the one Feanor really loved was Nerdanel, not Galadriel.

I don't think Melkor loved anybody, except possibly himself. He tended to go after bright things: there's a reference somewhere to him pursuing Varda, and the early mythos has him assaulting Arien; then of course there's the Silmarils themselves. But Nienna? She's really not his type.

Did she love him? She certainly goes to bat for him at least once, but that's in her role as Mercy. Given how unrepentant Melkor is, it's hard to see how the Weeper could fall for him.

Feanor, like Melkor, loved the Light - but like Melkor, he didn't just want to enjoy it, he wanted to possess it. The Silmarils were an impressive achievement, but built on the backs of Yavanna's, Varda's, and Aule's work (the Trees, Light, and Earth). Not acknowledging God's contributions when you're talking about a distant, unprovable figure is one thing; jealously guarding your treasure from gods who are right there is a whole nother thing.

It's almost tempting to see Feanor as just socially inept - his interest in Galadriel's hair comes across as a bumbling scientist, not a creep - but then you remember the whole 'if you won't help us we'll steal your stuff and murder you for stopping us' thing and feel less inclined to sympathy.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Did she love him? She certainly goes to bat for him at least once, but that's in her role as Mercy. Given how unrepentant Melkor is, it's hard to see how the Weeper could fall for him.

Which brings me to the first (and only) real creep in the Silmarilion: Eol the Dark Elf, maker of Anglachel/Gurthang (which just so happened to end up in the hands of someone as dark and brooding as he himself was)