Tolkien Bio-pic - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 05-29-2019, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Catholicism was basically omitted entirely. I'm not entirely sure if it even pointed out that Fr Francis was RC and not Anglican. As to Tolkien's stance on 'dramatisation' - well, the film ends in 1916 but for a flash-forward epilogue ca 1930, so it's not an issue. But the film basically doesn't present Tolkien's stance on anything.

Par for the course, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Come WW2 though and the opinion on the usefulness of cavalry is completely reversed again because unlike motorized forces they don't require fuel.

The US army's last cavalry charge was in the Philippines in early 1942. I don't know about the British forces or the Japanese, but the Wehrmacht used horses extensively in Russia.

Galadriel55 · 05-29-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The US army's last cavalry charge was in the Philippines in early 1942. I don't know about the British forces or the Japanese, but the Wehrmacht used horses extensively in Russia.

The incident I'm thinking of was on the USSR side. Tried searching for it, but it's not much help given that their cavalry participated in pretty much every battle all the way up to Berlin. To me it has the feel of 1943 onwards, but I might be mistaken. Oh well. I'll just live with not remembering. If I do come across it again I will definitely let you know.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-29-2019, 01:51 PM

Cavalry has remained useful in certain niche roles, right down to the war in Afghanistan. Horse was used widely in WWI on the Eastern Front and in Palestine with wide-open spaces to maneuver in. But the trenches of the Western Front was no place for them. Although the Germans did have "cavalry" regiments there, by 1916 they had turned in their horses and were infantry like everyone else.

In WWII in Russia, both sides used cavalry* because for so much of the year terrain was simply impassable for wheeled and sometimes even tracked vehicles. Cossacks in particular made something of a specialty of raiding German supply lines in the dead of winter.

As for the US in the Philippines, the 26th Cav (in fact a Filipino unit) did good service covering the retreat to Bataan; however it wasn't a "charge" but a delaying action.
_________________
*As well as horse-drawn transport. Legend aside, the "mechanized" Wehrmacht moved most of its supplies and artillery with horses; a standard infantry division had 15,000 men and 5,000 horses, and there were as many vets and farriers as there were doctors and medics.

NB: horses do too burn fuel- and they burn it whether they're working or not. For thousands of years of organized warfare, one of the biggest logistical headaches was simply providing and transporting enough fodder.

Rhun charioteer · 06-04-2019, 05:44 PM

Saw the movie, one recurring thought was “do all the people in the theatre understand the references this movie is making?”

Earendil is referenced, as is Beren and Luthien, same with Morgoth I believe.

In a lot of weird pseudo illusion scenes.

Regarding the catholic aspect one thing I did think was telling was that the movie didn’t show Tolkien insisting that Edith become catholic. Likely because that would not have gone over well with a modern audience.

As an aside as a Star Trek fan it was good to see Colm Meaney, Miles O Brien.

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-04-2019, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

As an aside as a Star Trek fan it was good to see Colm Meaney, Miles O Brien.

I like Colm Meany a lot too (also from the Alan Parker films)- but Fr. Francis wasn't Irish, he was born Welsh and raised in Spain.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 06-15-2019, 03:18 PM

So my mom was saying that she wanted to see this movie with me when she came to visit. Now that she's here, I kind of want her to forget it. She always takes movies literally, even if they're not supposed to be accurate to the last detail.

Inziladun · 06-15-2019, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

So my mom was saying that she wanted to see this movie with me when she came to visit. Now that she's here, I kind of want her to forget it. She always takes movies literally, even if they're not supposed to be accurate to the last detail.

That would merely give you license to explain all the wrongness.

05-29-2019, 01:51 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Cavalry has remained useful in certain niche roles, right down to the war in Afghanistan. Horse was used widely in WWI on the Eastern Front and in Palestine with wide-open spaces to maneuver in. But the trenches of the Western Front was no place for them. Although the Germans did have "cavalry" regiments there, by 1916 they had turned in their horses and were infantry like everyone else. In WWII in Russia, both sides used cavalry* because for so much of the year terrain was simply impassable for wheeled and sometimes even tracked vehicles. Cossacks in particular made something of a specialty of raiding German supply lines in the dead of winter. As for the US in the Philippines, the 26th Cav (in fact a Filipino unit) did good service covering the retreat to Bataan; however it wasn't a "charge" but a delaying action. _________________ As well as horse-drawn transport. Legend aside, the "mechanized" Wehrmacht moved most of its supplies and artillery with horses; a standard infantry division had 15,000 men and 5,000 horses, and there were as many vets and farriers as there were doctors and medics. NB: horses do too burn fuel- and they burn it whether they're working or not. For thousands of years of organized warfare, one of the biggest logistical headaches was simply providing and transporting enough fodder. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.* Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 05-29-2019 at 04:03 PM.

06-15-2019, 03:18 PM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	So my mom was saying that she wanted to see this movie with me when she came to visit. Now that she's here, I kind of want her to forget it. She always takes movies literally, even if they're not supposed to be accurate to the last detail. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

06-04-2019, 05:44 PM	#4
Rhun charioteer Wight Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 118	Saw the movie, one recurring thought was “do all the people in the theatre understand the references this movie is making?” Earendil is referenced, as is Beren and Luthien, same with Morgoth I believe. In a lot of weird pseudo illusion scenes. Regarding the catholic aspect one thing I did think was telling was that the movie didn’t show Tolkien insisting that Edith become catholic. Likely because that would not have gone over well with a modern audience. As an aside as a Star Trek fan it was good to see Colm Meaney, Miles O Brien.