One Thing in Common - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Huinesoron · 06-14-2019, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I don't know. I think only the 10 day rule can save us on this one.

I mean, if you feel like ignoring the thread for a week and a half, um... feel free? It's not actually that hard, though. There's a very specific, named document in which all three appear - which is their only appearance - and what they have in common is what visibly distinguishes them from the other people in that document.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Goodchild was a surname JRRT considered for Sam.

Did he consider Brown and Fairbairn as surnames for different or more important characters as well?

Not so far as I know.

hS

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 02:43 AM

That's the thing ... I'd guess something like the King's letter to Samwise, but it's after Bell's time. Lily is probably still alive ... but if they're mentioned there in a 'son of' and 'daughter of' capacity for Sam and Rose, it would be unusual to either not name the other parent or to name the mothers instead of the fathers. Also, why would the King mention Fastred when I believe Elanor is still a child, although not a young one?

Was I right about the 'they are in' being a family tree/trees?

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I mean, if you feel like ignoring the thread for a week and a half, um... feel free? It's not actually that hard, though. There's a very specific, named document in which all three appear - which is their only appearance - and what they have in common is what visibly distinguishes them from the other people in that document.

Not so far as I know.

hS

I didn't mean to complain. It's just that the answers to my current password would work in this thread, and I wanted to drop them in here once the last one is guessed.

Well, all 3 appear on the Longfather Tree of Master Samwise. Is that the document?

I wish I could say they're the only 3 spouses mentioned, but 6 marriages are indicated on that document.

... whoops ... there are 7! Hob and Rowan. Rowan must have been a girl, then, unless the Shire was more forward-thinking than we thought.

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I mean, if you feel like ignoring the thread for a week and a half, um... feel free? It's not actually that hard, though. There's a very specific, named document in which all three appear - which is their only appearance - and what they have in common is what visibly distinguishes them from the other people in that document.

Not so far as I know.

hS

It may be the only document where all three appear, but Fastred must appear somewhere else, or we wouldn't know that his children were Elfstan and Firiel ... unless only Elanor is named as parent in this other source.

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 03:34 AM

How about this?

They all appear in the Longfather Tree of Master Samwise

AND

They all three have a unique surname.

1. Bell is the only 'real' Goodchild ever mentioned (Christopher wouldn't let his dad make Sam a Goodchild ... so that was never *really* a character).
2. Lily Brown is the only Brown ever mentioned.
3. Fastred is the only 'of Greenholm' (is that a surname, like the Dutch ''Van" or the French "De?"), because his children and wife, and he himself, (supposedly upon his marriage), took the name of Fairbairn.

Huinesoron · 06-14-2019, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

How about this?

They all appear in the Longfather Tree of Master Samwise

AND

They all three have a unique surname.

1. Bell is the only 'real' Goodchild ever mentioned (Christopher wouldn't let his dad make Sam a Goodchild ... so that was never *really* a character).
2. Lily Brown is the only Brown ever mentioned.
3. Fastred is the only 'of Greenholm' (is that a surname, like the Dutch ''Van" or the French "De?"), because his children and wife, and he himself, (supposedly upon his marriage), took the name of Fairbairn.

Correct!

The Longfather Tree is the document I was looking for. I was phrasing the other part as 'they are the only person from their [birth] family ever named', but it comes to the same thing.

Well done to both of you - Urwen got tantalisingly close - and over to Pervinca.

hS

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 04:20 AM

OK. I am using the answers and password from my last password puzzle, for which I am not willing to give away the theme until at least a couple of people have had a go at guessing.

With one caveat, which I will defend, I believe these are the only known characters to whom this applies. It's something that I would say is rarer in Tolkien's works than it is in 'real life.' There could have been many other cases, but if there were, Tolkien did not report them.

Aragorn
Luthien
Idril
Niniel
Finwe
Turin

EDIT: If, once the theme is guessed, anyone can cite any further examples, I will add them with my apologies.

Urwen · 06-14-2019, 04:27 AM

Is it some kind of physical characteristic?

Pervinca Took · 06-14-2019, 04:28 AM

Yes, they all had a sixth finger, like Anne Boleyn.

Only kidding.

No.

06-14-2019, 02:43 AM	#2
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	That's the thing ... I'd guess something like the King's letter to Samwise, but it's after Bell's time. Lily is probably still alive ... but if they're mentioned there in a 'son of' and 'daughter of' capacity for Sam and Rose, it would be unusual to either not name the other parent or to name the mothers instead of the fathers. Also, why would the King mention Fastred when I believe Elanor is still a child, although not a young one? Was I right about the 'they are in' being a family tree/trees? __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."

06-14-2019, 03:34 AM	#5
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	How about this? They all appear in the Longfather Tree of Master Samwise AND They all three have a unique surname. 1. Bell is the only 'real' Goodchild ever mentioned (Christopher wouldn't let his dad make Sam a Goodchild ... so that was never really a character). 2. Lily Brown is the only Brown ever mentioned. 3. Fastred is the only 'of Greenholm' (is that a surname, like the Dutch ''Van" or the French "De?"), because his children and wife, and he himself, (supposedly upon his marriage), took the name of Fairbairn. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 06-14-2019 at 03:38 AM.

06-14-2019, 04:20 AM	#7
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	OK. I am using the answers and password from my last password puzzle, for which I am not willing to give away the theme until at least a couple of people have had a go at guessing. With one caveat, which I will defend, I believe these are the only known characters to whom this applies. It's something that I would say is rarer in Tolkien's works than it is in 'real life.' There could have been many other cases, but if there were, Tolkien did not report them. Aragorn Luthien Idril Niniel Finwe Turin EDIT: If, once the theme is guessed, anyone can cite any further examples, I will add them with my apologies. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 06-14-2019 at 04:32 AM.

06-14-2019, 04:27 AM	#8
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,408	Is it some kind of physical characteristic? __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

06-14-2019, 04:28 AM	#9
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	Yes, they all had a sixth finger, like Anne Boleyn. Only kidding. No. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always."