Riddles in the Downs

[Morsul the Dark]

So I latched onto “Deck” and looked into ships.

The Alcarondas is a ship with Golden Masts (though I admit I can’t find the other colors)

It’s the ship that anchored at Valar when the last king of Númenor challenged them.

Taking memories if metaphorical could mean the sinking of Númenor.

[Huinesoron]

Reposting for the new page:

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too.
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

So I latched onto “Deck” and looked into ships.

The Alcarondas is a ship with Golden Masts (though I admit I can’t find the other colors)

It’s the ship that anchored at Valar when the last king of Númenor challenged them.

Taking memories if metaphorical could mean the sinking of Númenor.

In contrast to the colours, the first line is pretty much just there to fill space and make an observation about the colours.

I don't think it's giving too much away to say that the answer is a class of people, places, or things, and the colours are three specific examples.

hS

[Urwen]

Oh, I think I may have it.


It's dragons.




Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too - Glaurung is gold; Smaug is red
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you. - Glaurung, as he did with Nienor

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Oh, I think I may have it.

It's dragons.

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too - Glaurung is gold; Smaug is red
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you. - Glaurung, as he did with Nienor

It is not dragons; dragons were a red (or gold, but probably not yellow) herring that I've been trying so hard not to rule out until someone said it. So thank you!

To the best of my knowledge, Glaurung is the only instance of actual memory theft in Tolkien. So the question becomes: how can you 'take' someone's memories without taking them away?

hS

[Urwen]

Via a Palantir or Mirror of Galadriel?

Sorry, but these are only instances I can think of.

Of course, there is Pensieve, but it's not Tolkien thing.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Via a Palantir or Mirror of Galadriel?

Sorry, but these are only instances I can think of.

Of course, there is Pensieve, but it's not Tolkien thing.

Nope (and I'm not sure either of those do that?).

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

Is it books?

The Red Book Of Westmarch
The Golden Book Of the Eldar
The Yellow Book I can’t find a specific one.

But it fits the rest pretty well and you said slightly metaphorical so that would work too.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Is it books?

It is!

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

The Red Book Of Westmarch
The Golden Book Of the Eldar
The Yellow Book I can’t find a specific one.

The Golden Book of Tavrobel was written by Eriol/Aelfwine in the 'ending' of the Book of Lost Tales; and yes, apparently there was a Golden Book of the Eldar too, occupying a similar place in a later version of the story. And Yellowskin was apparently the name of the Took family diary, which was over 900 years old at the time of the War of the Ring.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

But it fits the rest pretty well and you said slightly metaphorical so that would work too.

The idea being that books in Middle-earth were mostly historical, being filled with dates and locations - and also with the memories of the writer, particularly in the Red Book.

Over to you!

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

An innocent’s home I knock
My weapon is a rock
At the break of night
Before the final fight
I watch the thief sneak
I see the lizard weak

[Urwen]

No, wait.

[Urwen]

The thief is Bilbo and the lizard is Smaug. This would make the speaker Roac, who sounds like 'rock'.

[Morsul the Dark]

You’re wrong but only by a hair. Roac doesn’t knock.

[Urwen]

The thrush?

An innocent’s home I knock
My weapon is a rock - it breaks the snail's shell by knocking it against the rock
At the break of night
Before the final fight
I watch the thief sneak
I see the lizard weak - obvious

[Morsul the Dark]

I debated including the last two lines might’ve made it too easy. That’s ok though. Absolutely correct

[Urwen]

Will post a riddle in a few hours.

[Urwen]

This was all I could think of.


Come, let's traverse a hidden path
Where brambles and trees grow near the strand
You'll give me your oath
And I'll give you your land


(It's far easier than my previous one)

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Huinesoron]

Could be Thingol and Haleth, with the first couple of lines referring either to Brethil or to Nan Dungortheb; the latter two would be the part where the Haladin guard the crossings in exchange for the right to live in Brethil.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope. You've already said the answer recently. Because I'm cheeky like that. If you need a hint, you're looking at it.

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Morsul the Dark]

Tuor

[Huinesoron]

Or Eol to Aredhel.

Actually there's a whole bunch of 'they met in a forest and wound up getting married' stories in Tolkien...

hS

[Urwen]

No to both.


Those two didn't gain love, bur rather friendship.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Unfinished Tales?

Wait - are we in Cirion and Eorl here? Gondor summoned the Rohirrim through a combination of the Red Arrow and the beacons, which were lit by fire, so that could explain the second stanza. And Gondor gave up a huge chunk of land to the Rohirrim, which could be the price of the third.

As for the 'Second House' business... it looks like Cirion is actually in the second line of the House of the Stewards: the ninth steward died without a son, so the stewardship passed to his sister's line.

So I'm thinking Eorl to Cirion, upon Halifirien.

hS

If this is correct I don’t want it I’m quoting it specifically because it’s not my thinking but it fits

[Urwen]

That's it. Good job.

[Huinesoron]

Oh yeah I suppose that does fit.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

@Huin the answer is definitely yours I just quoted it. I think you should get the thread if you don’t want it I can post one later.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

@Huin the answer is definitely yours I just quoted it. I think you should get the thread if you don’t want it I can post one later.

Oh, um... I suppose? Here we go then:

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone.
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour,
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own.
Orange the standard of he who rules over,
Red for the fire that burns to the bone.

One answer.

hS

[Urwen]

Aragorn? Green is Elessar.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Aragorn? Green is Elessar.

Not Aragorn. (Saying yes or no to the Elessar would narrow the field too much, so I'll refrain.)

hS

[Urwen]

I'll take that as a yes.

Galadriel? Celebrimbor designed the original stone as a gift for her.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I'll take that as a yes.

Galadriel? Celebrimbor designed the original stone as a gift for her.

You shouldn't take it as either a yes or no; it's an explicit abstention.

Not Galadriel - nor 'Brim either.

Unrelatedly, I quite like the idea that the Elessar Galadriel gave Aragorn came from Celebrimbor. It makes her whole gift-giving thing a massive insult at Feanor - she gives the dwarf what she refused him, she gives the Hobbit the light of the things he refused to give anyone, and she gives the Man a present she got from his grandson. (Come to think of it, I doubt Feanor would be happy with her giving out lembas to all and sundry, either.)

hS

[Urwen]

I am still taking it as a yes, because Elessar is the only green stone in existence.

And I like this interpretation of them unfriends.

[Urwen]

Lothlorien, maybe?


Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - Mirror of Galadriel
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Celeborn's crown, obviously
Orange the standard of he who rules over, - Sauron, the master of all three rings
Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - Mount doom

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Lothlorien, maybe?

I'm afraid not - but good try!

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,

I don't recall any indication that the Mountains of Moria have heather on them.

Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - Mirror of Galadriel

This would work (but is wrong).

Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar

The Elessar is a green jewel, you are correct on that.

Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Celeborn's crown, obviously

Does he wear one? It's Galadriel's name that refers to a crown (ie, her hair), but she wouldn't be a lord.

Orange the standard of he who rules over, - Sauron, the master of all three rings

The standard of Sauron is black blazoned with a red eye. It has no orange.

Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - Mount doom

Orodruin is a loooong way from Lorien.

hS

[Urwen]

The only orange standard is that of the Glorfindel of Gondolin, who doesn't rule over anything.

[Urwen]

Wait, I may have the answer. Thanks for the hint.

[Urwen]

Tarn Aeluin?

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - the lake of Tarn Aeluin is filled with mirror-like water, and surrounded by the mountains where heather grows
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar, from which Aragorn, the descendant of Barahir, took his moniker
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Barahir could be the 'lord' of Tarn
Orange the standard of he who rules over, - I can't find Barahir's standard, but I assume it to be orange
Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - A reference to Dagor Bragollach, and the rivers of lava Morgoth sent forth

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The only orange standard is that of the Glorfindel of Gondolin, who doesn't rule over anything.

It's not Glorfindel. Orange is a tricky colour to find, so just some orange would be acceptable.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Wait, I may have the answer. Thanks for the hint.

We shall see.

hS

[Urwen]

Look above.