Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

This is odd. Some innocents have a habit of seeing wolves behind every accusation against them, which isn't helpful either, but usually people at least look closely and make their judgement - not because they're afraid of getting lynched necessarily, but to hunt for wolves. This comment only mentions self preservation.
Some wolves do it this way, as to not draw the village's attention to any suspicions.

This is a fair point. I've done that as a wolf in past games - that is, ignored other people's suspicions of myself in order not to draw any more attention to them.

I'm not sure I can stay awake until DL but Mac's post just made me rethink everything to the extent that my brain hurts. I still think Brinn looks sketchy, and I agree with Mac's points about her, but at the same time Mac's post about her makes me really uneasy. (Flip-flopping? Goes in the family, I'm afraid.) He literally starts with "I don't know who to vote for", then makes a reasonable argument against Brinn (quoted above), then quotes another bit from Brinn saying he wished he had noticed this earlier as her wording is "wolfie". This is literally like a wolf thought process written out in one post. I need someone to suspect -> come up with an argument against someone -> find "wolfie" things in that person's previous posts. The only other people he mentions in this post are ones he is okay with. So if the only one he voices suspicion of is Brinn, how come he "doesn't know who to vote for"?


EDIT: x-ed since aforementioned post by Mac

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

This is a fair point. I've done that as a wolf in past games - that is, ignored other people's suspicions of myself in order not to draw any more attention to them.

I'm not sure I can stay awake until DL but Mac's post just made me rethink everything to the extent that my brain hurts. I still think Brinn looks sketchy, and I agree with Mac's points about her, but at the same time Mac's post about her makes me really uneasy. (Flip-flopping? Goes in the family, I'm afraid.) He literally starts with "I don't know who to vote for", then makes a reasonable argument against Brinn (quoted above), then quotes another bit from Brinn saying he wished he had noticed this earlier as her wording is "wolfie". This is literally like a wolf thought process written out in one post. I need someone to suspect -> come up with an argument against someone -> find "wolfie" things in that person's previous posts. The only other people he mentions in this post are ones he is okay with. So if the only one he voices suspicion of is Brinn, how come he "doesn't know who to vote for"?


EDIT: x-ed since aforementioned post by Mac

Bother. I like this post and wish I didn't... kinda. There's several people pushing Brinniel as a vote today - this is the first semi-push-back that I've seen, and given Greenie "still thinks Brinn looks sketchy" it adds another layer of pigeonhole-scenario I'm unwilling to lock myself into but will consider later depending on what we learn.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm not sure I can stay awake until DL but Mac's post just made me rethink everything to the extent that my brain hurts. I still think Brinn looks sketchy, and I agree with Mac's points about her, but at the same time Mac's post about her makes me really uneasy. (Flip-flopping? Goes in the family, I'm afraid.) He literally starts with "I don't know who to vote for", then makes a reasonable argument against Brinn (quoted above), then quotes another bit from Brinn saying he wished he had noticed this earlier as her wording is "wolfie". This is literally like a wolf thought process written out in one post. I need someone to suspect -> come up with an argument against someone -> find "wolfie" things in that person's previous posts. The only other people he mentions in this post are ones he is okay with. So if the only one he voices suspicion of is Brinn, how come he "doesn't know who to vote for"?

This is a good point. I didn't have a sketchy read on him earlier, but I see what you mean about the wolf thought process. Something to keep in mind, especially if we find out Brinn's role.

xed with Shasta

[satansaloser2005]

Here and trying to catch up.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Here and trying to catch up.

Better than trying to mustard, I suppose.

[satansaloser2005]

Quickly for Kath.

[QUOTE ]Original post here.[QUOTE ]Posting OP is quoting here.[/QUOTE ][/QUOTE ]


x'd with Shasta. Missed you too, babe.

[Kath]

Thanks sally! I'll try it out.

Urwen - two posts. One: checking in and some odd RP thing about Maeglin. Two: voting for G55 'because I am Morleg and I am spiteful'.

Seriously, am I not getting something here?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

... and now Pitch has voted for Brinn. So unless it looks like anyone else is voting Lommy, I will - probably in about 15 minutes - vote for Pitch (preferably) or G55 (if necessary), because I'm suspicious of both and don't trust the Brinn-wagon.

I would much rather vote for G55 or Pitch over Brinn. Let's try not to split the vote between them, though - I suspect they are both wolves, so I don't especially mind which one gets lynched, as I think either one will tell us a lot about the other.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I would much rather vote for G55 or Pitch over Brinn. Let's try not to split the vote between them, though - I suspect they are both wolves, so I don't especially mind which one gets lynched, as I think either one will tell us a lot about the other.

I don't like the feel of the Brinnwagon. I'm always suspicious of sudden bandwagons.

[Kitanna]

I'm not going to lie, I cannot keep up today. I've been skimming, but in depth analysis is simply not going to happen before DL. Well at least not every post since my last one. Instead, I wanted to use the time I have to focus on people who seem to be popping up all over the place. This includes Brinn who didn't seem like she said much, but certainly was talked about a lot. Rikae and G55 because what was going on there? I'm going to start here hopefully move on to more. Fingers crossed I get something productive done before DL.

Brinn didn't say much in her first post. And really what stood out more was a joke post about her later "don't trust Greeks bearing gifts that G55 said. Which was just a joke post.
The only thing of even remote substance from Brinn's first post is

Originally Posted by Brinn

No, no, no, no, and no. The fact that this was ever brought up in a previous game seems insane! While there is always a risk of lynching an innocent, the Day is best shot at getting a wolf. If we don't lynch anyone they likely have one up on us by the following Day.

In response to G55's "cue discussion about a no-vote Day1!" comment. She comments seriously on something I read as another joke from G55. Nothing really nefarious to my eyes here.
Her next post is responding to a quarantine joke/banter post from Boro. In the same post she goes on about how planning just makes potential fodder for the next day.

Originally Posted by Brinn

True, true. Things never do seem to go according to plan around here. And then the ones who don't follow the plan become lynch fodder the next Day and more often than not turn out to be innocent.

Again, nothing really here. Maybe a wolf playing it safe and just sort of nodding and saying "yes, yes, this is true" while blowing smoke rings from her pipe. But really, after two posts, this doesn't scream "baddie."
Her next post is more of the same, agreeing with Mac on the discussion of deadline before deadline for a fake vote. And a question about quarantine.
The next post has more substance as far as establishing a trail of activity and not more "yes, yes, quite indeed" comments in response to others.

Originally Posted by Brinn

On Legate's post's about the fake votes...
Is it suspicious? Perhaps, but not necessarily. If he's evil, he's being rather bold, and if he's innocent, a wolf could use his posts to build a case against him. Then again, there could be no wolves involved and they are just quietly letting this play out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe there's only five remaining players who have not yet posted - which means odds are that there's at least 2-3 baddies hiding among the current posts. The problem I have with Day 1 is that without a track record from a previous Day, I tend see more people as innocent than guilty. Which I guess makes sense; after all, most of us are in fact innocent.

So, let's try this backwards...

So far I find Lommy to be the most genuine. She's only posted a few times early on, however, I do find her to be sensible and am agreeing with what she has to say.

THE Ka also seems level-headed to me and I'm leaning towards innocentish.

As for the other side of the scale, it's still too early for me to feel any strong suspicions, but based on hunch and posts I've seen, I am slightly more wary of: Inzil, Pitchwife, G55

Now time for sleep...it is far too late!

She sets up a scenario of a bold wolfLegate but also an innocent Legate having a case built against him. Reasonable, but she doesn't mention G55 or Pitch in this, which were the two most actively engaging about the fake vote. Legate didn't suggest the idea, though he ran with it, and I find it interesting Brinn didn't take into account the other major players when the drama first unfolded.
The next post is a mention of past experience, which eh. Nothing much there.

I think this next posts is where people started to question Brinn more.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I agree with this. I'm still a bit wary of G55 and Pitchwife (less so of the former), however I don't want to get caught in a trap. I think I will stay clear of this potential mess for toDay and focus elsewhere.

In her post about Legate she didn't mention anyone else by name in regards to the fake vote. Here she says still wary of G55 and Pitch which unless I missed something, she hadn't actually mentioned them at all prior. Not long after this Rikae says she would likely vote for Brinn if DL was right then.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Between the three of you that have been brought up, I found Pitchwife's posts to be most suspicious. However, I'm second-guessing myself because I'm starting to think he may just be easy cannon fodder for the wolves. I don't find Legate suspicious and reading your posts today, I'm less wary of you.

I honestly do not have time for full summary posts because I do actually have to work as I mentioned before. If I were to pick someone right now, I would say Inzil. I can't quite put my fingers on it, but I'd say it's mostly because he's one of the most frequent posters, yet I find him providing less of substance and just going with the flow. Easy way for a wolf to hide.

If I do have time I may take a look at those building a case against Pitchwife.

This looks suspicious to me. She never once mentioned Inzil and now he's her top suspect. But this all reads too clumsy for Brinn, to obviously trying to look guilty, almost. I'd say she's more likely a cobbler than a wolf at this point in the postings.
Rikae votes for Brinn some posts later.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Okay, took a quick look back at some posts. Regarding the whole Legate/G55/Pitchwife bit, I find Kitanna's reactions most suspicious. She seems quick to point out that there is likely a wolf among the group.

Despite the fact she also ran with these suspicious and focused in on Legate, pot have you met my good friend, kettle?
Next post she's unconcerned with suspicions coming her way. Though she does view Rikae and G55's back and forth as likely two innocents than anything else.
Pitch also votes for Brinn
But Brinn hasn't been back. If she's a wolf, then she is a bold one indeed who is trying to pull off a gamble with her erratic posting/suspicions. I think if she's not just plain innocent, she's the cobbler. She doesn't cast herself in a good light and she does seem pressed for time, but as I said earlier in this post, she reads more clumsy than wolf. Brinn knows she's short on time based on her quotes that she does have work. So wolfBrinn could easily just float under the radar. Plenty of other people were making noise when she started to say things that were off. Honestly, Pitch looks more guilty to be for his vote than Brinn.

[Eönwë]

Ok, caught up to #212 now and probably can't hang around time-wise.

The fake vote discussion has mostly focused on G55, Legate, and Pitch. Now we've had people suspecting G55 and Legate, people suspecting Pitch for suspecting Legate, and I think Legate (correct me if I'm wrong) at one point suspecting those who suspected Pitch for suspecting him. For the moment, I'm inclined to believe that Legate and Pitch are innocent. I'm not sure about G55, especially given her recent argument with Rikae, but I'm not convinced it makes her guilty. The reason I'm bringing this whole thing up is not to rehash this, but actually to point out that Zil, Brinn, and Lommy were also around then and lightly interacted with the topic, but as far as I remember without really addressing the fact that suspicions were being flung around (at least until later). I wouldn't be surprised if one of them were a wolf just going with the flow.

I also think there's something interesting going on between Legate, Pitch, and Mac which warrants more observation, but while I feel like someone among them may be suspicious, I really can't tell who it is.

I also agree with those that have said Boro is acting weird, but there will be more time for him to incriminate himself if he is guilty, and he's not suspicious enough for me to vote for him without hearing what he has to say for himself.




As for who I'm going to vote for? Urwen. They have made 2 posts: 1 that doesn't really make sense, and one vote. No discussion or engagement with what is being discussed. This seems like either a wolf who doesn't want to make any comments that could come back to bite them, a cobbler who is just messing with us, or an innocent who is not helping the village and is voting out of spite (as claimed in their most recent vote-post). Based on this:

++ Urwen

[Nogrod]

Day1 - votes

Lhuna -> Lhuna
Rikae -> Brinniel
G55 -> Rikae
Boro -> Pitchwife
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel 2
Kath -> G55 2
Shasta -> Pitchwife 2
Kitanna -> Pitchwife 3
Inzil -> G55 3
Lottie -> G55 4
Greenie -> Macalaure
THE Ka -> Brinniel 3
Eönwë -> Urwen


8 votes (possibly) to come.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. So, here I have spent the last minutes debating who to vote for if it looks like Kitanna may not be a vote anyone would go for (even though with these numbers still possible), and considering whether voting Brinn would make sense, meanwhile anyway stuff started happen, but also among other things Kitanna posted her analyses. That made me think I might want to reserve my judgment. They looked kinda genuine (like would a Wolf bother with those? Unless exactly, she - even as Wolf - can't keep up with the thread and simply opts for the "safe thing").

Next - Brinn and all. Of the names that came up now, I'd vote for her the most, chiefly because her death could reveal a lot. There have been a number of people speaking about her whose posts may be REALLY interesting to look at in the light of her lynch, especially if she turned out to be Wolf. Namely, first and foremost among them at least as far as I am concerned, Greenie.

Also since other people I'm wary of seem to be kinda circling around not voting Brinn. Such as Eönwë.

Ok blueeeiiiaggh time's running out. Will check and try to make sense and vote.

[Pitchwife]

Eönwë voting Urwen - really?? Isn't that the most throwaway vote you could possibly make, especially when her two posts so far seem to indicate that she's totally out of her depth here?


Greenie on Mac is only slightly less throwaway, as there's actually been suspicion on him.

[Nogrod]

Same with the stuff showing...

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Quickly for Kath.

x'd with Shasta. Missed you too, babe.

[Pitchwife]

Shasta re Eönwë/Greenie being Agreeable : That was supposed to be the beginning of a list of people I haven't been able to get an idea of yet (and yes, Greenie is in that category too, as is Zil, and Lhuna, and Lommy and Lalaith and I'm sure a few others), but there was too much going on to catch up on so I gave up and just put that out there.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Shasta re Eönwë/Greenie being Agreeable : That was supposed to be the beginning of a list of people I haven't been able to get an idea of yet (and yes, Greenie is in that category too, as is Zil, and Lhuna, and Lommy and Lalaith and I'm sure a few others), but there was too much going on to catch up on so I gave up and just put that out there.

This isn't not plausible, for the record, but I don't think I buy it wholesale - that wasn't the feeling I got from the comment you made and I'm not sure I agree with Inzil being in that group, either.

Requires more thought.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Greenie

He literally starts with "I don't know who to vote for", then makes a reasonable argument against Brinn (quoted above), then quotes another bit from Brinn saying he wished he had noticed this earlier as her wording is "wolfie". This is literally like a wolf thought process written out in one post.

Actually I only noticed it mid-post, wrote my piece about it, and then didn't bother to change the beginning of my post.

[Macalaure]

Ok then. Obviously Gala considered Rikae to be innocent. In fact, by the fairly spirited way she went after them, she likely thought they were not just innocent, but gifted. What set her off against them was an error in a comment about me. Maybe she thought Rikae was the seer, dreamt of wolf-me (No, I’m not a wolf, but she Gala doesn’t know that) and tried to get me lynched by exaggerating what little could be found that early into Day1? Now Rikae is dead. Did the wolves follow Gala’s judgement and thought them gifted? I don't see it, unless maaybe if Brinn is indeed a wolf and the way Rikae suspected her set them off. Not gonna put too many eggs into that basket, though.

Why Rikae then, just because after yesterDay they'd look the most innocent of all toDay and thus least likely to be lynched? Possibly, but if so, our wolf pack is boring.

Unless... I'm being framed. By the exact thinking above, a mewolf would have reason to think Rikae really is the seer. If the wolves are preparing my head for the chopping block, I have to raise my eyebrow at those who suddenly suspected me near the deadline, since this would very much play into their hands/paws. *coughgreeniecough*

*tinfoilhatting intensifies*


And while I'm already being paranoid...

Originally Posted by Kitanna

His response does seem like a natural response when a player comes under fire like he did. Not to say I absolve him, but it doesn't strike me as overly wolfy behavior.
In the whole Legate, G55, and Pitch discussion I'd wager there's a wolf hidden, setting up two innocents to take the bait. Yet each time I read back, I switch who I think is most likely the wolf.
I thought Legate might be the innocent party until post #88
Something about the whole post feels, I don't know, contrived? I can't place my finger on it. Like G55 it feels like he's distancing himself from the fake DL, fake vote discussion.
I'm finding it hard to explain why this sets me off, but I'm going to try in the most coherent way.
Legate drew a lot of attention, but I didn't really feel many were overly suspicious of him. There's been some talk, but nothing to indicate everyone is convinced and ready to bandwagon. I'd say more people raised eyebrows toward G55 and Pitch, myself included, because of how G55 distanced herself from her idea and how Pitch threw it all into Legate's lap. In all that, Legate did look like a misguided, attempting to be helpful innocent. But maybe that's how he wants to be viewed? He's been helpful, at least, in stirring up conversation. And yet, his list post of his thoughts in #88 just rings of false platitudes and him trying to put himself under the radar again. He came, he made a lot of noise, and now just there with a list.

This would look perfect if Kitanna and Legate are wolves together. She’s suspicious of him and defending him at the same time. It’s easy to say that there’s a wolf in that group if you know that there is. Note how in conclusion, she finds Gala and Pitch more suspicious than Legate. Can't suspect a fellow wolf too much.

Legate is suspicious of Kitanna in turn, but then:

Originally Posted by Legate

Kitanna*- I have listed it above. Upon re-read, I sense the danger of having focussed too much on it to the point of solidifying my suspicion for myself, but the points stand.

Throwing suspicion at a fellow wolf while in the same breath excusing not to vote for them.



Finally, in response to Greenie, now that I have time to respond properly

Originally Posted by Greenie

This actually isn’t how I read that at all.

(This is in response to a point of mine against Huin.) Me neither, necessarily. But it’s a plausible wolf tactic to say someone looks innocent while at the same time inviting others to make their case for guilt.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm not sure I can stay awake until DL but Mac's post just made me rethink everything to the extent that my brain hurts. I still think Brinn looks sketchy, and I agree with Mac's points about her, but at the same time Mac's post about her makes me really uneasy. (Flip-flopping? Goes in the family, I'm afraid.) He literally starts with "I don't know who to vote for", then makes a reasonable argument against Brinn (quoted above), then quotes another bit from Brinn saying he wished he had noticed this earlier as her wording is "wolfie". This is literally like a wolf thought process written out in one post. I need someone to suspect -> come up with an argument against someone -> find "wolfie" things in that person's previous posts. The only other people he mentions in this post are ones he is okay with. So if the only one he voices suspicion of is Brinn, how come he "doesn't know who to vote for"?

I started that post not knowing who to vote for and listed all the ones that I did not wish to vote for. I was going to end the post with something along the lines of "I'm going to skim over the posts of the ones not listed to see if anything jumps out." As I previewed my post I saw Brinn's post. I looked back at her older posts and found more fishy-ish things that I had missed before. Enough to make me suspicious enough to vote.



PS: Huin... I now have Cobbler55 stuck in my head to the tune of Mambo No.5. Why did you do this to me??

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Greenie mentioned yesterDay that Mac's analysis post of Brinn reads like someone talking themselves into suspecting someone else, which most often happens when a wolf is looking for a reason to suspect an innocent. So I definitely don't trust him at this point.

Except wolves know all day that they have to make up the reasoning for a vote for an innocent and can plan for it accordingly.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Except wolves know all day that they have to make up the reasoning for a vote for an innocent and can plan for it accordingly.

Right, but they also know that they have to make something up. In my experience, wolves will often have more of a "yeah, hey, you know what, this'll work, I suspect them!" tone than innocents will - and I do think your post about Brinn had a bit of that tone to it.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

On another note, Steve's vote was odd, to say the least. It's natural to have been frustrated by Urwen's lack of reasoning (I was), but there was no chance she would be lynched.

Agreed it's a terribly bad throw away vote sure.

But had I been able to and not already voted, when I read Steve's vote I thought I would be very tempted to do the same thing. I thought Urwen's vote was unsporty and even though G55 turned out cobbler, I had same exact reaction as Steve's. Looked like Urwen had no interest in being helpful.

If G55 turned out Ranger, I would be feeling a lot different about Steve's throw away.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But had I been able to and not already voted, when I read Steve's vote I thought I would be very tempted to do the same thing. I thought Urwen's vote was unsporty and even though G55 turned out cobbler, I had same exact reaction as Steve's. Looked like Urwen had no interest in being helpful.

I'll be coming back to this.

[Lhunardawen]

Okay, let's see if I remember how to do this.

An ordo knows only one thing for sure: xe is innocent. Everyone else is unknown. The Hunter, Ranger, and (may she rest in quarantine) Cobbler are in the same boat.
The Seer knows a few more things: xe is innocent, and at this point the identity of two other villagers.
An Infected knows far more: that xe is evil, that 4 other people are evil, and that everyone else is innocent.

Sorry, needed to review.


No use beating a quarantined horse, but speaking of Cobbler - I honestly didn't suspect G55 to be one because I expect the Cobbler would prioritise playing to last longer in the game over wreaking havoc and risking an early lynch. But as someone said before, there are a lot of ways to play that role. I just can't get behind the arguments of someone doing something related to G55 thinking that she's the Cobbler.


So a village of this size and verbosity is pretty overwhelming. I'm doing this piecemeal for my sanity, so I might be repeating some points made on later pages or asking questions that have already been addressed. I'll get to them eventually.

Huinesoron, that first post of yours toDay -- I can't. I just can't right now. I'll try going back to it later, but right now just looking at it... *brain explodes*

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Very curious about this.

x/d with Brinn

Ditto. I'm kind of wondering how she's still alive. My reasoning goes round in circles but hovers more over somewhere unsettling.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I am a little bit side-eyeing the late (but before the "reveal") Brinn voters. If you were a wolf, you'd probably rather keep the loud, distracting player who is haring after someone not in your pack than keep the quieter player who isn't going to help you hide as much. Specifically, Mac, Legate, and Rune.

I'm not sure I follow this. You're suspecting three people because you think as a wolf they voted for a quiet innocent to save a loud innocent?

Originally Posted by Loslote

I don't think Brinn's innocence is proven by any means, but I do think that the vote patterns look (to me at least) very much like wolves choosing between two "innocents". I also think that the wolves would probably have rather lynched Brinn over G55, assuming neither was a packmate. I don't think they were trying to "orchestrate an innocent lynch" - I think, based on the overall tone of the late voters, that it came down to two options, neither of whom was a wolf. No one felt like a wolf nervously trying to avoid lynching a packmate without overtly defending them, or anything like that.

Hmm. I guess it just seems a bit of a stretch to me because it's an assumption I wouldn't make. I'm not even sure Brinn's all that innocent, so how can I guess someone else's identity based on that unstable premise?

Originally Posted by Mac

Ok then. Obviously Gala considered Rikae to be innocent. In fact, by the fairly spirited way she went after them, she likely thought they were not just innocent, but gifted. What set her off against them was an error in a comment about me. Maybe she thought Rikae was the seer, dreamt of wolf-me (No, I’m not a wolf, but she Gala doesn’t know that) and tried to get me lynched by exaggerating what little could be found that early into Day1? Now Rikae is dead. Did the wolves follow Gala’s judgement and thought them gifted? I don't see it, unless maaybe if Brinn is indeed a wolf and the way Rikae suspected her set them off. Not gonna put too many eggs into that basket, though.

Why Rikae then, just because after yesterDay they'd look the most innocent of all toDay and thus least likely to be lynched? Possibly, but if so, our wolf pack is boring.

Frankly I don't understand why a few people say Rikae looked more innocent after yesterDay (before it was revealed they actually are, of course). Sure, they went toe-to-toe with who we now know as the Cobbler. They didn't know that for sure then. How did that all but guarantee their innocence?

That being said... WHAT. You tell us. Did you follow G55's judgment and thought them gifted?

Originally Posted by Mac

Unless... I'm being framed. By the exact thinking above, a mewolf would have reason to think Rikae really is the seer. If the wolves are preparing my head for the chopping block, I have to raise my eyebrow at those who suddenly suspected me near the deadline, since this would very much play into their hands/paws. *coughgreeniecough*

Can't imagine a suicidal Macwolf but with 114 games I guess anything's possible. I don't know what to think anymore.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If G55 turned out Ranger, I would be feeling a lot different about Steve's throw away.

Care to explain, Boro? How would that be any different?

Originally Posted by Lommy

What I meant by "let's make this more interesting" was "let's see if anyone rushes to save Gal, or joins the bandwagon after me to save Brinn". Adding a new vote candidate 15min before the dl when 2/3 of the village had already voted would have been the opposite of making it interesting...

On the contrary, it would be exactly what will make things interesting. I mean, look at the interest Eönwë's getting now for his vote for Urwen.

Originally Posted by Leggie, to Lottie

You are operating awfully close to the idea as if you somehow knew Brinn to be innocent. Objectively, the idea of Wolves keeping loud distracting player vs quiet one makes sense, but your whole theory stands on the idea that Brinn would have to be not one of them.

You said it better than I attempted to.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

Off to work, will be back with what's left of my brains later toDay.

Not much is left. Nothing for you here, zombies.


Yay one page down!

[Lhunardawen]

It just occurred to me... For all intents and purposes, a vote for G55 is still a vote for an innocent (i.e. non-wolf). Maybe it's worth looking at those who voted for G55 as well. So, shamelessly stealing and combining Boro's and Eönwë's lists (with the non-G55 or Rikae votes in double brackets)...

[[Lhuna -> Lhuna]]
Rikae -> Brinniel
[[G55 -> Rikae]]
[[Boro -> Pitchwife]]
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel (2)
---30 min mark----
Kath -> G55 (2)
[[Shasta -> Pitchwife 2]]
[[Kitanna -> Pitchwife 3]]
Inzil -> G55 (3)
Lottie -> G55 (4)
[[Greenie -> Macalaure]]
THE Ka -> Brinniel (3)
[[Eönwë -> Urwen]]
----15 min mark----
Rune -> Brinniel (4)
Lommy -> G55 (5)
Huines -> G55 (6)
Legate -> Brinn (5)
Macalaure -> Brinn (6)
Brinniel -> G55 (7)
Sally -> Brinn (7) (after "ranger reveal")




I'm not even going to touch Urwen's vote, or think about Urwen at all, so long as she's determined to not-play this game. There's a modfire rule for a reason.


Kath

I'm struggling, because even though I feel like I talked myself out of it in the previous post, I am still suspicious of G55.

I didn't like early on that she was happy to slide all the 'responsibility' for the fake votes thing over to Legate. You can say he took a joking remark beyond her original intention but as I noted before it was actually her who brought it back up again.

And having backed away, the affray with Rikae is a great way to get involved in something without actually really having anything to say. It's all about what did that word really mean rather than much else. So it seems like she's been involved in a lot but hasn't really.

But what I'm REALLY struggling with is that I'm now following Urwen's vote, which I'm strongly irritated by on principle.

Thing is, I can't see where she talked herself out of her suspicion of G55. These were the last things she said about her:

G55 --> Rikae - quite a big fight seems to have blown up between these two. I looked at post 69 and couldn't really see anything in it. Yes, Rikae somewhat exaggerated events but it was early in the Day and to me read as typical banter. I don't think there was this element of deliberate misrepresentation that G55 feels is going on. I don't know if G55 has played with Rikae before and it's an unfamiliarity with playing style thing, or a great way for a wolf-G55 to have a pretty logical reason to vote an innocent-Rikae.

G55 ... earlier in the Day it was felt by some that she'd backed away from the 'fake-votes' in favour of leaving that to Legate, and was garnering a bit of suspicion or at least wary eyes as a result. She then leaps headfirst into a ding dong with Rikae and a few have now mentioned this makes her look innocent. I don't know that I'm going anywhere with this as it feels like it would be way too hard to make that a calculated thing.

She didn't really say much about suspecting G55 until her last couple of posts. Fishy. Can't quite put my finger on it.


Inziladun

I'm trying to decide whether I think Legate or G55 makes me more uneasy.

In response to the fake vote discussion

G55 has actually been my main candidate most of the Day. I'm still catching up, but it seemed Rikae spent a while suspecting her, then voted Brinn.
Then G55 votes Rikae What's up with that?

Despite not having said much about her in his previous posts

I see Urwen has jumped in out of nowhere to vote for G55. Would a wolf really be so careless?

Careless? For voting without an explanation, or for voting for another suspected wolf?
Finally, on his vote for G55:

There's no one else I would want at this point, and it could say a lot about Legate, Pitch, and Rikae.

It's odd how confident he seemed in his vote despite not saying much to support it in his previous posts. Suspiciously bandwagonny.


Loslote
Considered G55 and Pitch more wolf-like of the GLP trio. Thought Pitch didn't want to be tied up with or seen defending G55, kind of agreed with Huin that they might both be wolves. Pretty consistent in her suspicion of G55, even false-voted her. Thought she might be either Cobbler or wolf. Panicked at G55's reveal, urged the rest of the voters to vote Brinn to save her. Said anyone left who didn't vote for Brinn should be considered suspicious toDay.

Sounds sincere, albeit turned out to be wrong. Leaning innocent.


Thinlomien
First, she filed G55 under "Who Knows"

Galadriel55 - several things she's said have made me raise my eyebrows a little - especially how she treated the whole no-vote discussion from the start, but I think she might rather be an ordo sticking her neck out à la Legate or else the cobbler, and in either case probably not who I want to concentrate any more toDay than we already have.

False-voted Boro.

* I always read Gal's original suggestion (that was a no-lynch plan unlike Legate's) as tongue in cheek, and I was under the impression Gal confirmed this?

Okay hopefully that's the very last thing from me both about the nature of flip-flopping and on how the fake vote discussion started rolling, because it's high time to move on.

Said "Quite a bold statement for Day1 and pretty much out of nowhere??" to Lottie over something the latter had said a couple of times throughout the Day. Then her posts at the end of yesterDay. Prefaced her vote with "let's make this interesting."

So Brinn and G55 both at 6, but G55 the one to be a goner so far? With curious last minute posts from several people here! ToMorow will be iiiiiinteresting...

Said this after G55's late reveal, then urged remaining voters to vote for Brinn. And then toDay:

If the wolves were trying to orchestrate an innocent lynch yesterDay, it could have just as well been Gal, who they also knew wasn't one of them.

You would know, wouldn't you. Wicked. Tricksy. False.


Huinesoron
Questioned G55 for "hypothetically contemplating possible Wolf victories" (wolf-Hunter-ordo endgame).

Okay, I've stolen a little more time on the actual computer to read over "Phase 2" (people's comments on the G55/Legate/Pitch debate). Note that this does not mean I no longer suspect Pitch, G55, and Lommy (in no particular order);

But unless I missed something, I'm pretty sure that post above was his first considerable suspicion of her.

Okay, G55 reminds of that odd 'hey what if this specific scenario happened, would I still be a wolf winner?' question, so I guess I do have something else on her. Mac points out that Rikae's misrepresentation of him could be a simple mistake (I think someone's misattributed something to me somewhere, though I can't find it), which does make G55's continued pulling on the thread somewhat sketchy.

Mmmkay. Then false-voted Lommy. When G55 and Brinn tied at 2 apiece, said he still stands by his false-vote but would vote Pitch > G55 to derail the Brinnwagon. In the end voted G55 when the votes were at 4 Brinn, 3 Pitch, 5 G55.

If he voted Pitch as he preferred, he would have nearly contributed to a three-way tie, although I'm not sure if anyone else (other than Lottie, who at that point had already voted) would also vote for Pitch. Huin-Brinn wolf pair? Can it be that blatant?


Brinniel

As for the other side of the scale, it's still too early for me to feel any strong suspicions, but based on hunch and posts I've seen, I am slightly more wary of: Inzil, Pitchwife, G55

This was circa QT discussion, post-fake vote proposal, and pre-G55/Rikae.

I agree with this. I'm still a bit wary of G55 and Pitchwife (less so of the former), however I don't want to get caught in a trap. I think I will stay clear of this potential mess for toDay and focus elsewhere.

Cue alarm bells for some people. On G55's probing, she said of the three she suspects Pitch > G55 > Leggie. Pseudo-false-voted Inzil. Said she might look at those building a case against Pitch, time-permitting. (Why?) Suspected Kitanna for being quick to point out that there's a wolf in the GLP group, but not enough to vote her. Said G55/Rikae seems like a squabble between two innocents.

And as for the suspicions against me? As I said I'm not too worried about general wariness, as we all do suspect one another at some point. However since I know I'm innocent, I will be watchful anyone who is trying to build on a case against me.

Hmmmmmm.

Would have voted for Kit, but voted G55 to save herself. Vote itself is reasonable. Everything else? Suspicious.


In the midst of my re-read, I saw this:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Based on nothing more than this description of events I'd speculate on Cobbler-G55 and Innocent-Rikae. My opinion may change after I get context.

The psychic strikes again.