Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Loslote]

In reading toDay's posts, I have found myself very suspicious of Zil, due to his bringing up the Kit situation. I haven't necessarily gotten a "wolf feeling" off of him prior to this, but I haven't exactly gotten an "innocent feeling", either, and I can more easily believe that the wolves decided it was worth while to bring up the Kit situation than that an innocent just decided to make it open and public rather than trying to quietly ignore it. I have also found myself wary of Pitch, for continuing to talk about it, but there is some plausible deniability in that Zil mentioned it first.

I didn't like Boro's posts earlier toDay, but as he mentioned me as a suspect, I decided to sleep on it before reacting. He does have a point that I shouldn't just assume Brinn is innocent - but I think his reasons for suspecting Brinn are weird, and I don't like that he uses Rikae's trap "catching" Brinn as a reason to suspect her. It feels too "well, known innocent says!" for my tastes.

I am very concerned by Mac's response to the Night kill. It feels to me like he was very prepared to insist that it was a frame job, not a Macwolf killing a possible Seer, almost like he knew it was coming and had a whole Night to work up the paranoia. He is definitely high on my suspect list.

I am not comfortable with Lommy's posts toDay, but as I might be a bit biased due to her suspecting me, I'm going to take a minute to make sure I'm not being blinded by that before taking a closer look at her.

On a more positive note, I am getting an innocent vibe from Legate after reading his posts toDay.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, and I am getting bad vibe from Lottie's post above.

It essentially says "I am suspicious of the people who did something toDay that has provoked controversy" - that could easily also mean "I am a Wolf waiting for people to pick which of the bandwagons that are offering themselves toDay would be the best to ride on". These are literally all the things that were controversial toDay, stated by someone else, so I could imagine Lothwolf writing it here to "butter up" people who first stated it. I am wary.

Similar kind of behaviour I have been noticing toDay still also in Huinesoron, to a degree - even though in his case, it is rather along the lines of "I comment on XY, but then again just so that you don't think, I do not really mean it, but thought you should know".

I have been feeling a bit better about Kitanna - her lengthy analyses lean more genuine - but I am still very much on the verge about her.

There are lots of people who are on my mind now, but I'll be on-and-off for a while now still, so excuse random tidbits.

EDIT: x-ed with Pitch and onwards

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Similar kind of behaviour I have been noticing toDay still also in Huinesoron, to a degree - even though in his case, it is rather along the lines of "I comment on XY, but then again just so that you don't think, I do not really mean it, but thought you should know".

My problem right now is that the current big thing is the Kit discussion, and it doesn't seem to be breaking along any kind of lines, and in particular along any of the lines I noted earlier. As just one example: you and Lottie entered the discussion with posts saying similar things, but now you suspect her for a post on a different aspect.

Which is exactly what I'd expect from an innocent! I'm not seeing anyone jumping out at me as a wolf, so I'm worried the whole thing is just villagers savaging villagers while the wolves look on and laugh.

I've also been wanting to see more from Mac, and I see he posted right before you did. Time to see what he has to say for himself.

hS

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

My problem right now is that the current big thing is the Kit discussion, and it doesn't seem to be breaking along any kind of lines, and in particular along any of the lines I noted earlier. As just one example: you and Lottie entered the discussion with posts saying similar things, but now you suspect her for a post on a different aspect.

Which is exactly what I'd expect from an innocent! I'm not seeing anyone jumping out at me as a wolf, so I'm worried the whole thing is just villagers savaging villagers while the wolves look on and laugh.

I agree with this. And I've seen this a couple of times now:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Legate, I quite agree (hence my initial eyebrow at Zil), but we'd already arrived at most of the points you make at the end of the discussion, so isn't it a bit convenient to make yourself look good by this holier-than-thou sermon?

Pitch was the first to raise an eyebrow at Zil's behavior, so he thinks it's holier-than-thou for Legate to come down on it. Then...

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, and I am getting bad vibe from Lottie's post above.

It essentially says "I am suspicious of the people who did something toDay that has provoked controversy" - that could easily also mean "I am a Wolf waiting for people to pick which of the bandwagons that are offering themselves toDay would be the best to ride on". These are literally all the things that were controversial toDay, stated by someone else, so I could imagine Lothwolf writing it here to "butter up" people who first stated it. I am wary.

Legate had already condemned the people who brought up Kit, so when I also brought it up, he thinks it's jumping on the bandwagon. Which is all somewhat fair, except that it was my genuine first reaction to seeing someone keep talking about a slip until the Ranger was forced to straight up admit it - this is very suspicious! Yeah, I wasn't the first to mention it, but I'm not going to avoid saying that I think it's suspicious just because I wasn't the first person to see it go down and say something about it.

[satansaloser2005]

Also, I don't like how we're discussing Kit, so those engaging in that discussion strike me as inherently more suspicious than those not. Just a random thought.


x'd with Lottie

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, I don't like how we're discussing Kit, so those engaging in that discussion strike me as inherently more suspicious than those not. Just a random thought.

I am now done with it.

[Thinlómien]

I kinda agree with everything Sally has said after her return, but somehow it makes me rather more than less suspicious of her. She's mostly echoing sentiments of other players, and fairly uncontested ones at that. She couldn't be less controversial if she tried.

I'm flip-flopping on Lottie again. She seems to make sense from her own pov, but I'm not sure it's an innocent pov.

Mac's defence of himself didn't really make me less suspicious of him, but it did make me a little more suspicious of Greenie. Hmmm...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I kinda agree with everything Sally has said after her return, but somehow it makes me rather more than less suspicious of her. She's mostly echoing sentiments of other players, and fairly uncontested ones at that. She couldn't be less controversial if she tried.

Great minds think alike, and also sometimes this one.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Legate had already condemned the people who brought up Kit, so when I also brought it up, he thinks it's jumping on the bandwagon. Which is all somewhat fair, except that it was my genuine first reaction to seeing someone keep talking about a slip until the Ranger was forced to straight up admit it - this is very suspicious! Yeah, I wasn't the first to mention it, but I'm not going to avoid saying that I think it's suspicious just because I wasn't the first person to see it go down and say something about it.

I was not referring to you speaking about that one thing, but about everything. Boro, Mac. Everything that has been deemed "controversial by the public". I am not saying these can't be genuine suspicions, but these are all things you can then easily pick up if a bandwagon starts on either of them - and they all seem like they easily could.

EDIT: x-ed with multiple again and took out something I accidentally quoted

[Lhunardawen]

Last few thoughts before I vote. It's waaay too late here already.

Originally Posted by Brinn

So I found Pitch slightly suspicious yesterDay because he picked on Legate who if innocent, could be easy to build a case against. I did back off some on the suspicions, as I sensed a bandwagon building on him and if he were innocent, could be the work of wolves and didn't want to be caught up in it (which is apparently the post that several including Rikae found to be suspicious).

Wait let me see if I get this right. If Legate is innocent it could be easy to build a case against him, so you suspected Pitch because he picked on Legate. Then you eased up on suspecting Pitch because you did not want to be caught in a bandwagon that could be orchestrated by wolves.

I'm just... Lost. Shouldn't one back off from suspecting someone because of what they said, not because you're worried about what others would think if you end up voting for an innocent? Not helping your case here.

I'm in the camp that finds Eönwë's vote yesterDay suspicious, and his posts so far today don't ease that feeling.

One thing that I don't think people have really addressed toDay is that Pitch was seriously on the chopping block yesterDay and then managed to get taken out of the running, and a large part of that was G55 becoming an eligible vote candidate due to Zil and Lottie.

But also take into account that (at least) Lottie's vote was consistent with her suspicions all Day. It's also odd that you agreed with Boro about Zil and Lottie's votes and then suspect him for pointing it out.

Might vote for one of these toDay:
Mac but almost too out there a choice, I'm finding his posts difficult to reconcile with what I know of an InfectedMac
Lommy
Brinn

Bears looking at more closely:
Boro
Kath
Huin
Zil
Kit
Eönwë

Everyone else, either I can't put a finger on or flying off my radar or there's just not enough space/energy for now.

[Huinesoron]

Have looked over Mac's #405, and I don't like it. He seems to be focussing heavily on the people who suspect him, and explaining why that must make them wolves. Okay, I've read enough Werewolf to know that innocents do this, but a) so do wolves, and with a good deal more urgency, and b) didn't Mac spend a big post early toDay explaining how he thinks G55 thought he was a wolf? He even brings it up again here.

And yes, there are more details, but with the amount of words that have been thrown around you can build some kind of case against everyone. The fact remains that his case against Greenie relies heavily on 'this is exactly how I’d expect a Green wolf to act'.

At the moment, my vote would probably go to Mac or Pitch. Pitch has been looking better toDay, but as I said (earlier toDay, I think?), I tend to read him as reasonable when he's responding to me anyway. So I need to go back and read him over again.

Lommy has... has she been posting? Right, a bit at the end of page 9, and onto 10. That explains why she hasn't struck me as suspicious for a while - she's not been here? I'll look over her as well, but my memory is that I've felt slightly better about her toDay.

The Zil/Lottie connection seems to have evaporated, so I'm tentatively calling Lottie innocent (and see no reason to change my earlier placing of Greenie and Legate in that category). Zil has... wow, has really been pushing this Kit-discussion, hasn't he? Leaning against trusting him still.

Crossposts from people named above: Lommy is back and, oh stars, literally saying 'flip-flopping'. But I think I'm getting a feel for her style, and this doesn't feel wolfish. I'll still reread to check what I was worried about before (too many villagers, I can't remember who did what!)

Zil has posted with... a short, zero-content post. 'Short' seems to be his style, but #412 does take it to extremes. Overtones of 'let me drop back into the shadows'. So I stand by my 'wolfish' read.

(Crossed with everything from #409.)

hS

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

In reading toDay's posts, I have found myself very suspicious of Zil, due to his bringing up the Kit situation. I haven't necessarily gotten a "wolf feeling" off of him prior to this, but I haven't exactly gotten an "innocent feeling", either, and I can more easily believe that the wolves decided it was worth while to bring up the Kit situation than that an innocent just decided to make it open and public rather than trying to quietly ignore it. I have also found myself wary of Pitch, for continuing to talk about it, but there is some plausible deniability in that Zil mentioned it first.

Oh, come on!

With five wolves, is it plausible none of them saw the post before I asked about it the next Day!?

x/d with Legate