Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I don't see it that way. The only innocent reason for such surety was if SeerLommy knew of a Sallywolf, which plainly is not the case.

Are you saying an ordo cannot become 90% convinced of someone's guilt just based on their posting? Moreover, a fellow innocent person's guilt?

[A Little Green]

Initial thoughts for toDay:

Leaning innocent:

Lottie – multiple reasons, but particularly her instrumental part in lynching Huinwolf as well as very vocally agreeing with him and pointing it out herself on Day 1. Doesn't look like a plausible wolf pair.

Pitch – I still think Huinwolf wouldn’t have pushed the attention on the GLP and especially Pitch’s role within it so heavily if it implicated a packmate.

Lalaith – Might need to reconsider, but I do think it’s a good sign that she voted for Huinwolf even though she had previously mentioned feeling uneasy about Mac and so would have had a perfectly valid alibi for not bussing a packmate.

Shasta – Still mostly gut feeling combined with his effort to subtly protect Kitanna in a way that wouldn’t necessarily occur to a wolf.

Rune – Haven’t seen anything to worry me so far, and Lommy’s Legatolysis (which sounds like a medical condition btw) brings up a good point about how if the wolves killed Legate for looking like the Seer then Rune most likely isn’t one of them.

Could be anything:

Lommy – On the fence about her. Has a pretty horrible track record so far (though I’m not really in a position to judge anyone on that ), but I think an evil Lommy would have been smoother and less bloodlusty about trying to get Sally lynched. (As she pointed out herself, a wolf would have known Sally was telling the truth and consequently would have known exactly how bad an all-out attack on her would look in retrospect.) On the other hand, I still think she seemed somewhat more jumpy than usual earlier in the game, and her mutual suspicion with Huinwolf could easily have been wolf-on-wolf.

Kath – I still have worryingly little read on her considering how active she’s been. Has stayed out of the spotlight and the big controversies, and barely interacted with Huinwolf.

Lhuna – On the fence about her too. Her voting record doesn’t tell us much; admittedly yesterDay’s no vote was due to RL and understandable, but Day 1 she voted for herself which gives us literally nothing, and Day 2 she voted for Lommy for reasons that still aren’t entirely clear to me. There was also the bit where she pointed out Huinwolf’s slip when no one else did but then didn’t follow up on it, which I still think could be a possible indication of guilt (a wolf would be more likely to notice a wolf slip because she’d know that’s what it was).

Eonwe – I get a general good vibe from him, but don’t really trust vibes anymore. He was very careful and diplomatic especially earlier on. Cast the deciding vote on Huinwolf; though as Pitch pointed out, if he knew he was casting the deciding vote, I could see an Eönwölf bussing a packmate knowing that the alternative would leave him looking pretty bad.

THE Ka – Like Kath, has carefully stayed out of the spotlight and the big controversies while contributing actively. Barely interacted with Huin. I don’t like how she seconded Inzil bringing up Kitanna’s slip and thus contributed to outing the Ranger but then didn’t take part in the ensuing discussion about it – and consequently, isn’t really mentioned when that whole debacle is discussed. Admittedly if Inzil is as guilty as he looks, Ka more than likely isn’t; for two wolves to be the first to poke at a likely Gifted would be brazen in a way I don’t think Inzil and Ka would be.

Leaning guilty:

Inzil – Interactions with Huinwolf basically amount to mutual suspicion without votes, and then Inzil voting for Mac over Huin at a fairly crucial moment. First reacts to this with fatalistic “I know this incriminates me!”, then later when both he and Sally are being suspected for their vote placements as well as following paranoia and defensiveness, he drops this tone and basically tells the village to lynch him if they want. Then starts toDay with an all-out attack on Lommy that looks somewhat rehearsed to me (regardless of Lommy’s role).

Brinn – I’m still not comfortable with her. Huinwolf defended her very vocally; she voted for Huin on Day 2 at a fairly crucial point which makes her look better. Admittedly she had been pretty heavily suspected herself, so possibly thought she couldn’t afford to visibly save a packmate people were already connecting her to. Enough has been said about her (especially earlier) concern with keeping her hands clean and overt focus on how the Rikae kill is connected to herself. I’d like to reread her posts from yesterDay and toDay to check what she’s been doing since, as she’s largely disappeared from the public eye aside from those cyptic votes from the QT.

Boro – I find him increasingly worrying. Lightly suspected by Huinwolf while saying he doesn't want to lynch Huin and voting for Mac over him at a fairly crucial time. Admittedly I’m not sure if a Borowolf would be this open about it. Additionally, I’m not comfortable about how he’s repeatedly suggesting QT-related plans that don’t make sense to me from an innocent POV (though admittedly complex ploys and strategies aren't really my strong point so it's possible I'm just missing something) – first when we had an evil-majority QT he suggested bringing the pre-votes back which would have been very useful for the evil QT, then when questioned about this he said something along the lines of wanting to mess with them; then toDay he’s suggesting we start to trust the QT vote now that they have an innocent majority, which doesn’t make sense to me either (other than as an easy way of justifying a vote that doesn’t incriminate himself). Also not sure what to make of his voting for Sally to save himself from a last-minute panic bandwagon against himself that, frankly, didn’t look at all likely.

[THE Ka]

[RL – Sorry for the long bit of silence, helping grieving family is always difficult the second day when shock wears off. I have some more time today so I’ll be catching up further. Thank you everyone for your words, I appreciate all of you. As for the Game, again, regardless of role and what’s happening in our RL let’s keep playing as a sort of solace in the storm.[/RL]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Claiming to be the hunter is quite a good wolvish lynch prevention tactic because a) the real hunter might be reluctant to challenge because it greatly decreases their chance to get to use their special ability and b) conversely, flushing the real hunter out is a big favour to the wolves, it's like flagging a landmine for them. So I would certainly take a hunter claim with a bigger pinch of salt than say a seer claim.

Are you echoing Mac’s statement of the wolves trying to get the hunter out of the way early to bag an innocent in the same Day?

Personally I’d take a Seer claim with a greater pinch, especially early game, unless the Seer happened to be extremely lucky and dream of a wolf on a previous Night (even so, that’s really risky as Seer you want to stay in as long as possible). Even if you’re using the ‘wait don’t do it, I’m really the Seer and this is what I know-‘ to try and either sway votes for your pack or just use it as last minute cover as a villager, it won’t keep you concealed for long. Other wolves might just decide to sacrifice you the next Day for being too hot a topic (and making any innocents who supported you guilty of collaboration to others), and if you were a villager and found lying, you could garner a lot of distrust for trying to flush the Seer out and possibly be thought a flustered cobbler.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

now that it turns out Mac was an innocent.

My Mac vs. Sally reasoning boiled down to what happened to Mac beforehand. It just seemed so forced as I’ve said before, like the wolves regardless of his innocence or not at that point, found him to be a sort of main distraction as they were trying to figure out gifted roles. He appeared coy and nervous which made it look like he was afraid of being caught due to Rikae appearing innocent, etc. and that was forced without abandon. I figured by being a pothole in the road, it would frustrate a few of them just enough to see who was upset by proximity.

The next Day, I spot Sally and then Zil casually joking in the same manner and poke them over it, asking if we’re going to see a repeat of yesterDay over Mac. Zil eventually gave an answer to other players, but Sally remained distant and coy over it and I dug further into her voting patterns and actions around DL on different days. I even ended up agreeing with Brinn when she pointed out Sally had begun to try and turn the wheel of attention towards the reason behind Mac votes when the majority of us were already becoming convinced it was something taken advantage of and others feeling duped.

I’d feel more duped over my Sally vote, but before knowledge of the hasty hunter reveal it just appeared that she was doing a lot of little to appear involved. Sort of what we saw from Hui in their list posts and a self-assurance that since Zil had appeared to garner enough attention early on yesterDay that it would be a unanimous vote for them. Considering what had happened with Mac until Legate had enough of a hunch to go back and pull Hui’s posts, Sally had come across to me as trying to bide time and pull the same as Hui, hoping Zil would take all direct hits since they were engaging all our questions at that point.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I would like to hear what THE Ka, Eönwë and Greenie have to say about what they thought of the Sally quote above at the time.

I remember reading it in passing first, then again, but at that point it sounded still coy and more like a cobbler move than a villager, which comes across as a flustered wolf that is trying to make us pause enough to try and find reasoning for voting along their suspicions so they can recuperate enough to start back again. In comparison between Sally and Zil at the time and with what had happened with Mac the previous Day still burning in my mind, I didn't want to entertain it and be lead down a rabbit hole. Unfortunately, even fumbled, I wasn't around to read the semi-reveal until after the Day had ended.

[Thinlómien]

Quite universally suspected, Sally made a hunter hint before any voting took place. She said:

Originally Posted by Sally

Also, lynching me would either be a bad idea or a Very Bad Idea, depending on how my suspicions play out. Either way, you're not lynching a wolf, so maybe look elsewhere? Just saying.

Personally, I think it was blatant enough for anyone to notice, but I think everyone who voted Sally before her actual reveal - apart from myself - either didn't notice it or purposefully ignored it, which is interesting. I would like to hear what THE Ka, Eönwë and Greenie have to say about what they thought of the Sally quote above at the time.


THE Ka -> Sally

Pressed for time and weighed on by RL, casts the first vote on widely suspected Sally. An innocent with a genuine suspicion of Sally would do this, so could a wolf wishing to vote safely. Can't judge.


QT -> Brinn

Whatever is going on here. I guess toDay's qt vote might help - if they for some reason vote for Brinn again I think they know more than we do, and the Brinn vote yesterDay was a wolvish double bluff that's obvious to the quarantined. If they vote for someone else than Brinn toDay, then I don't think we can say much about this vote.


Eönwë -> Sally 2

"Since I have to go now, I worry that if I leave, there might be a bandwaggon for someone I don't think is evil, so, let's make this a thing". Sounds quite genuine to me, which makes me feel a little better abut Eönwë who's otherwise rubbing me the wrong way a lot. Of course, this could be Wolfwë rephrasing "Since I have to go now, I worry that if I leave, there might be a bandwagon for one of my fellow wolves, so, let's make this a thing" - but I'm not sure he would be that open about it.


Kath -> Inzil

"I won't be back now until deadline, and I still find Inzil the most suspicious based on what I said in my earlier post". Hmm. She steers clear of the Sally controversy with this, but to be fair, at this point it was no way clear that "whether we should lynch Sally or not?" would be the main discussion topic. A safe vote that could have started a rival bandwagon, given how many people at least mildly suspected Inzil, but didn't. Interesting.


Greenie -> Sally 3

Says she x'ed with Eönwë's vote for Sally. "As mentioned before, debating between Inzil and Sally - finding out Inzil's role would tell us more, but I'm slightly more certain about Sally whose behaviour today has looked, to use Shasta's word, much too scrambly for an innocent Sally with an unfortunate but accidental vote placement the Day before." I think this vote doesn't tell us very much until we know Zil's role.


Lommy -> Sally 4

I'm not going to discuss my own vote because I feel like both others and myself have done that ad nauseam already. I'll just put my reasoning here: "I'm 90% sure she's a wolf after the latest drama she tried to pull, so why not give her a headstart when I'm not half as convinced about anyone else." By "the latest drama she tried to pull" I mean her hunter hint. I wasn't more specific about it, because I didn't want the "real hunter" to feel too pressured to counter-claim. (Also referred to this a little later when I said "Not buying Sally's theatrics.", in case anyone's wondering.)


Inzil -> Brinn 2

"You know what? I'm not going to hold out to try to save myself. ++Brinn For being Rikae's Day 1 vote, for getting by since, and because the QT baddies are daring us. Do the same, vote for someone else, or me," I really have zero idea what to make of this, but it makes me feel a tiny bit better about Inzil. Wouldn't wolf try to make more sense? Also the comma in the end just leaves me baffled.


After this, Sally revealed for real, saying:

Busy, but I must beg of you....
Hey, don't lynch your hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Possibly notable: She likely crossposted with Brinn saying she's debating between Inzil and Sally.

Reactions:

Pitch trusts her and says he got her hint earlier, a little later defends her too.

Legate is skeptical and asking who is she hunting. Later Legate gets very vocal about repeating the question, heavily distrusting Sally's claim in the process. Also agrees with me (see below) that we can't count on the wolves to reveal Sally's true role for us.

I didn't buy the reveal at all and explained why.

Shasta says he got the hint but isn't buying the claim either, later he adds we shouldn't nonetheless lynch Sally and explains why. (I disagree with this and explain why.)

Boro is frustrated and confused. Later agrees with Shasta that Sally is likely faking but we still shouldn't lynch her.

Lottie believes Sally and says she's happy to vote someone else. Also: "It's too close to the deadline and we have no idea who her pick would be anyway. I'm not voting for Sally." Tries to bring other candidates to the table, namely Zil and Boro.

Rune pops in and asks if he got people's reasons for suspecting Sally right, without saying whether he believes her claim or not - soon adds that lynching Sally is too high stakes for him.

Brinn is unsure/skeptical about the reveal.

Lalaith doesn't say this or that about whether she believes Sally or not, just notes: "Like Legate I want Sally to tell us who she is hunting. So much unanimity on Sally is a bit unsettling."

Mac doesn't trust Sally's reveal but it still makes him hesitant to lynch her.


Sally -> Lottie

"Equal parts suspicion and self-preservation."


Lottie -> Sally 5

Does quite a legate180. The only reason I can see is that Sally didn't tell her hunting target, seemingly because she wasn't around. Vote accompanied about angry shouting that if Sally is the hunter she shouldn't hunt her.


Lalaith -> Sally 6

"Ok fine. Good luck if you're the Hunter Sally. So long if you're not. I'll miss your insouciance either way." I don't really like this vote. As far as I can see, Lalaith didn't particularly suspect Sally - or anyone else besides Legate, anyway, if memory serves.


Legate -> Sally 7

"Her blood be on us and on our children." whatever that means. Stayed extremely skeptical of Sally 'til the end.


Shasta -> Sally 8

"-shrug emoji-" From a person who was pretty loud that we should lynch Sally regardless of her role? Really?


Brinn -> Sally 9

"If she's the hunter, I don't understand why she would not say her pick." Consistent disbelief of Sally. But I have to say that her "quiet and reasonable" stance to the whole Sally debacle could very well easily be fake. Her actions would be very safe for a wolf who has decided offing hunter!Sally is worth the risk.


Rune -> Inzil 2

"meh." Well, he's going with his suspicions, casting a somewhat doomed vote for someone he suspects, rather for an either wolf/hunter lynching whom he considered too big a risk. Makes sense.


Boro -> Sally 10

"Really don't like the idea of a panic bandwagon against me. If you're the hunter, happy killing. If you're a wolf, thanks for giving me 500 heart attacks, but I'd consider us even considering the trick I pulled on you previously." The jumpiness here is a bit eyebrow-raising, but I can't disagree with the general sentiment about what if Sally actually is the hunter, I mean I thought the same myself.


Mac -> Greenie

"Just because. "


Pitch -> Eonwe

"Is everybody allowed a throwaway vote once in the game?"


No vote: Lhuna Not much to say about that, but speaking of her: don't look at her vote tally of yesterDay, it has several errors. I noticed because I used it as a basis for this pots while rereading the thread and the votes didn't add up. What I have presented here is the correct voting tally.


Thoughts: I'm not super keen on Lalaith and Shasta's votes, the former voting Sally without even saying whether she believes her or not, the latter voting Sally despite thinking it's a bad idea. Brinn's attitude towards the whole debacle looks super safe, but not necessarily sinister.

I would still like to hear from THE Ka, Greenie and Eönwë whether they caught Sally's hunter hint and what they thought of it.

I am really baffled that there were a lot of people who were either skeptical of or downright against lynching Sally, yet still they failed to bring forth another candidate. There was a lot of suspicion against especially Inzil but also Boro, but these didn't gain momentum. Why? Perhaps a lot of the people looking for alternatives for Sally were actually wolves but they didn't want to bring a fellow to the block when the lynch was going in a nice direction for them* and bringing forward a second innocent lynch candidate who they hdn't suspected very vocally so far seemed like too conspicuous a move?


*barring of course the fact that some wolves might have been scared of lynching the hunter because she might target them, but there were very few people worried about who Sally might actually pick - namely Lottie, Mac and Rune


edit: xed with Greenie and Kath

[Lalaith]

I am really baffled that there were a lot of people who were either skeptical of or downright against lynching Sally, yet still they failed to bring forth another candidate

Lommy my love - now this is too much. You seem to forget you were stomping all over the thread shouting at us about voting for Sally, we could barely get a word in edgeways!

[Lalaith]

Lalaith -> Sally 6

"Ok fine. Good luck if you're the Hunter Sally. So long if you're not. I'll miss your insouciance either way." I don't really like this vote. As far as I can see, Lalaith didn't particularly suspect Sally - or anyone else besides Legate, anyway, if memory serves.

No this is not true and quite careless of you, Lommy. I had in fact talked myself out of suspecting Legate due to his Hui vote and had been highly suspicious of Eonwe since my analysis post of hiim earlier that day.
See my post 792.

So I would rather go Eonwe (from the dodgy behaviour stated in my earlier post) or Boro toDay. Brinn would be acceptable (Second time taunt from QT - really?)
I am still not completely happy with Legate but because of his Huivote I feel a bit better and won't vote for him toDay.

I gave out three different lynch candidates as an alternative to Sally. And I argued with you about what was wrong with having a known innocent who the wolves were too scared to kill. And your reply was at 819 was (in keeping with your general mood) bloodthirsty.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Quite universally suspected, Sally made a hunter hint before any voting took place. She said:

Personally, I think it was blatant enough for anyone to notice, but I think everyone who voted Sally before her actual reveal - apart from myself - either didn't notice it or purposefully ignored it, which is interesting. I would like to hear what THE Ka, Eönwë and Greenie have to say about what they thought of the Sally quote above at the time.

I didn't think too much about it, to be completely honest with you. At that point, I was tired and had a headache (an actual one, not just a thinking-too-much-about-werewolf one), was pretty convinced that Sally was a wolf, and in general terms didn't think it likely that a genuine Hunter would want to drop hints at her role as this would effectively mean the wolves would be less likely to kill her, thus making her Gift useless. So with this combination of background factors, it did cross my mind that she was making a hint but I took it with such a big pinch of salt that it didn't really impact my decision-making.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

Actually, from what Lommy has said herself about her attitude towards the game, I could absolutely see a Lommywolf leading the charge and being entirely willing to take all the flack for it the following Day. What a great way to pull suspicion onto pretty much just one person. Even if she's lynched, if all the discussion has revolved around her and her actions at the end of yesterDay, it would surely leave fewer clues as to the identity of her fellow wolves.

I can't obviously say if I would play this brazen as a wolf too - perhaps, because like I said I feel more laidback about the game in general. On the other hand, it's possible being a wolf and feeling a loyalty to my pack would have made me want to avoid the spotlight.

I mean I certainly don't follow with Kath saying that if I was a wolf and lynched, the discussion being centered on me toDay would give you guys fewer clues about my packmates. On the contrary, it would be a freaking goldmine. In fact, even as it is, if you guys lynch me toDay, I want you to swear to look at the controversy I have created and look who jumped on it in an opportunistic way.

But that being said, I would very much like everyone to look at other people than myself toDay. I'm afraid the whole "is Lommy suspicious for spearheading the Sally lynch" debate is somewhat drowning out everything else.

I'm not the only one who voted yesterDay.

No one but me has even looked at the Legate kill.

Please guys, focus your energies somewhere else, at least a little while. Then you can decide who you vote. Frankly I understand why several of you suspect me, and perhaps I deserve to be lynched for how wrong I've been in this game, but I don't want to be lynched because getting innocent myself lynched would be about the worst conclusion to my track record in this game and I would not forgive myself for messing up that bad without having done anything constructive (that I can see the consequences of so far). I don't want to play anymore unwitting cobbler than I already have.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Lommy my love - now this is too much. You seem to forget you were stomping all over the thread shouting at us about voting for Sally, we could barely get a word in edgeways!

Come on. I didn't force anyone to vote Sally yesterDay, yet most people still did. I don't have any magic manipulation powers. Yes, I was arguing quite vocally for lynching Sally. (Side note: so was Legate, a known innocent.) You guys could have let me yell at Sally alone and ignored me and voted for someone else. Yet you didn't. You can blame me for my decision that was bad in hindisight, but you can scarcely blame me for your own. The Sally lynch was not my doing alone, yet that narrative is very much being pushed. Do you know who benefit from that narrative? The wolves. Both the wolves who voted for Sally themselves, and even those who didn't, because it's making me an easy lynch candidate.

Originally Posted by Zil

No, but I can't see such zealous urging being the product of a mere "90%".

Then be careful how zealously you press lynching me toDay. Anyway, I would like to link as a proof a game where I was the ranger and Mac was a wolf (ok not the same as this, as I turned out to be right there) where I was super convinced Mac was a wolf, went on a crusade that made everyone raise their eyebrows, then Mac pulled a fake ranger reveal and out of spite I refused to counter-reveal because I didn't want to give him that snippet of victory and everyone thought I was deranged and I think I was even lynched (and Mac the next Day). Fun times. Not my greatest moment, but I have thought of that game a lot recently because it was a great warning for me not to pick fights with Mac (which I nonetheless did in this game). *blows kisses to Mac in the qt if he's reading this*

Originally Posted by Lalaith

No this is not true and quite careless of you, Lommy. I had in fact talked myself out of suspecting Legate due to his Hui vote and had been highly suspicious of Eonwe since my analysis post of hiim earlier that day.

I remember you backed off the Legate suspicion but I didn't remember you suspected Eönwë. Sorry, my bad about that one. The Boro and Brinn thing though, it really just adds to my general unease about some fairly commonly suspected names floating around in the lynch discussion yesterDay but garnering scarcely any votes. Why did you, for instance, vote Sally and not Eönwë, or Boro or Brinn? Had you done that as soon as you started voicing your misgivings about the Sally lynch, there might have been an actual option to lynch someone else.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I didn't think too much about it, to be completely honest with you. At that point, I was tired and had a headache (an actual one, not just a thinking-too-much-about-werewolf one), was pretty convinced that Sally was a wolf, and in general terms didn't think it likely that a genuine Hunter would want to drop hints at her role as this would effectively mean the wolves would be less likely to kill her, thus making her Gift useless. So with this combination of background factors, it did cross my mind that she was making a hint but I took it with such a big pinch of salt that it didn't really impact my decision-making.

Noted.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Are you echoing Mac’s statement of the wolves trying to get the hunter out of the way early to bag an innocent in the same Day?

Hm, I'm not sure I understand this question, please rephrase if I answer the wrong thing. I simply thought claiming to be the hunter would be a quite cunning and in character move from a wolf!Sally, because (quoting myself) "a) the real hunter might be reluctant to challenge because it greatly decreases their chance to get to use their special ability and b) conversely, flushing the real hunter out is a big favour to the wolves, it's like flagging a landmine for them". I'm not sure it really depends on whether it's early or late in the game. Perhaps earlier is even better for wolves, but I wasn't looking at it timing-wise yesterDay.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I simply thought claiming to be the hunter would be a quite cunning and in character move from a wolf!Sally, because (quoting myself) "a) the real hunter might be reluctant to challenge because it greatly decreases their chance to get to use their special ability and b) conversely, flushing the real hunter out is a big favour to the wolves, it's like flagging a landmine for them". I'm not sure it really depends on whether it's early or late in the game. Perhaps earlier is even better for wolves, but I wasn't looking at it timing-wise yesterDay.

Got it, that answers it more for me. Kath had pointed out earlier with a quote from Mac the previous Day where he had mused that the wolves if targeting a hunter would want them out of the way early since the risk of the hunter taking an innocent was high. Before knowing his role, this could have been seen as a wolfish way of laying a subtle hint to pack mates, but now it's just a villager concerned.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I remember you backed off the Legate suspicion but I didn't remember you suspected Eönwë. Sorry, my bad about that one. The Boro and Brinn thing though, it really just adds to my general unease about some fairly commonly suspected names floating around in the lynch discussion yesterDay but garnering scarcely any votes. Why did you, for instance, vote Sally and not Eönwë, or Boro or Brinn? Had you done that as soon as you started voicing your misgivings about the Sally lynch, there might have been an actual option to lynch someone else.

This is in response to Lal. Agreed, but there were quite a few others in the same boat. Who was still to vote after sally's reveal:

Lottie - 9.53
Lalaith - 9.55
Legate - 9.56 - known innocent
Shasta - 9.56
Brinn - 9.58
Rune - 9.58
Boro - 9.58
Mac - 9.58 - known innocent
Pitch - 9.59
(Lhuna - no vote)

The first vote after the reveal was Lottie's, half an hour after sally's vote, and that was with 7 minutes to go, and by the look of it almost every vote from then cross posted. Out of all 9 actual voters there, no one took the plunge of pushing forward another candidate fast enough. Very likely there are wolves who didn't want to be the first onto an alternative bandwagon who were watching the insanity with glee. But looking at the lateness of Legate and Mac's votes, who we now know were innocent, means not immediately throwing out an alternative doesn't automatically equal wolf.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Which is to say, even though they're free of evil intentions, our beloved quarantined may still be wrong and the baddies can hijack a vote for a non-wolf.

Agreed, but we're at two baddies and five innocents, so the baddies can't have the same level of influence as before.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

No one but me has even looked at the Legate kill.

I haven't had a chance to look deeply into it, but I've thought about it and read your analysis.

Legate seems like another safe, boring kill since it seems he was widely presumed innocent. But then again, why wouldn't the wolves try seeking out the seer? Unless they wanted us to think they were targeting the seer or they were worried that targeting a seer could implicate one of them. But it seems too risky to not seek out the seer - the longer they remain alive, the bigger the risk they are to the wolves.

So maybe the wolves did think Legate was possibly a seer who dreamed of Hui. I do agree that if they did kill Legate for seer suspicions, then that does put Rune in a better light.

[THE Ka]

(Sorry for delay, my work suddenly decided to have a conference call with all mgmt. and our tribe on gradually reopening businesses)

Originally Posted by Kath

Agreed, but we're at two baddies and five innocents, so the baddies can't have the same level of influence as before.

yesterDay:

Originally Posted by Lottie

Huh. QT votes for Brinn again. Do they actually want Brinn lynched, or are they repeating yesterDay's vote as a way to refuse to give us anything from Huin to guess about?

Having a chance to go back and begin reading everything that happened near DL yesterDay, I'm agreeing with Lottie's observation. I know we've joked about the repetitive QT vote, but I highly doubt we're going to see a vote like this to cover for anyone toDay. If Brinn is still in the suspicion for being a wolf and 'protected' by the dismissal of the QT as Zil pointed out yesterDay, I just don't see it swinging that way a third time. If anything for suspicion on Brinn, it will either allow them to return to a safe spot to hide or force them to be more forward.

Like Kath has said, it's the level of influence. Huin and G55, whatever they may be saying toDay in the QT, it's a fair assumption that Legate is going to be interested in what they were trying to cover from Huin previously. It also makes me suspicious that the wolves are going to be interested in waiting for the QT vote as well so we may see a last minute push of their preferred bandwagon.

It made me want to go back to Legate's #740:

Originally Posted by Legate

I think they are doing this to give us no info, plus potentially even discourage us from it (depending what Brinn is). Anyway, clearly messing with us in some way, that's for sure.

Breeeeep. Disagreed. I'd almost be tempted to shove it in the QT's face and vote her. But let's think about this for a sec.

Yes, this is one, fairly plausible, option, in my opinion.

From this we glean that Legate highly suspected the Brinn QT vote to be a cover, give us no information, and was almost tempted to do the opposite and vote for Brinn (which if there was some earlier plan before Hui ended up in QT to collaborate between the two threads to not give info and save Brinn, it would potentially force the wolves to decide quickly whether to abandon their current bandwagons to save Brinn or be forced to give her up.) A frantic situation like that two hours before DL could glean a lot of leads on potential wolves.
I know before when G55 had made the fake-vote idea, Legate mainly was interested in it due to this similar effect of disarming wolf-planning suddenly.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Shasta -> Sally 8

"-shrug emoji-" From a person who was pretty loud that we should lynch Sally regardless of her role? Really?

If my, like, two posts stating a differing opinion to the majority qualifies as "pretty loud", what does that make you? Ear-shattering?

Originally Posted by Lommy

Thoughts: I'm not super keen on Lalaith and Shasta's votes, the former voting Sally without even saying whether she believes her or not, the latter voting Sally despite thinking it's a bad idea. Brinn's attitude towards the whole debacle looks super safe, but not necessarily sinister.

I explained that already - I'm used to Hunters that the wolves have to kill, and you had a point; wolves wouldn't necessarily have had to kill a revealed Hunter here. Although I do think, as I type this, the case for a wolf-Lommy going all-out to get Hunter-Sally lynched to take down a non-wolf grows... and makes Lottie look better, maybe? Hmm. Pin in that.

Back to my train of thought - I fully thought Sally was a wolf; leaving the Hunter to the wolves was an option. No one seemed to really go for it, so I was fine voting for Sally in the end. Hence the shrug.

X'ed since my last.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ok. I've gone away, I've had a glass of wine and a think and here's what.

Maybe I should try this wolf-catching method too

Originally Posted by Pitch

[Incidentally: +1000 posts on D4? Whole games have played out on less than half that. This is really insane.

++tweet-style character/post-capped game

TIG CXV - The Liar Tweets Tonight?]

I'm looking forward to you and Rune co-modding this in June.

Originally Posted by Shasta

If my, like, two posts stating a differing opinion to the majority qualifies as "pretty loud", what does that make you? Ear-shattering?

Touché.

I actually went and read Boro and Brinn's posts on Lhuna, and now there's Kath's. None of them are sources I would take without a pinch of salt , but they all do have some good arguments for Lhuna being a wolf. Plus, there's the weird bandwagon roll call she never explained, plus her quickly pointing out then shutting up about Huey's wolf slip.

Might as well put my money where my mouth is and vote before the last chaos minutes:

++Lhuna


Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4

[Lalaith]

I remember you backed off the Legate suspicion but I didn't remember you suspected Eönwë. Sorry, my bad about that one. The Boro and Brinn thing though, it really just adds to my general unease about some fairly commonly suspected names floating around in the lynch discussion yesterDay but garnering scarcely any votes. Why did you, for instance, vote Sally and not Eönwë, or Boro or Brinn? Had you done that as soon as you started voicing your misgivings about the Sally lynch, there might have been an actual option to lynch someone else.

I've already explained and also mea-culpa-ed on this. See my post 905.

[Kath]

For the QT, my suspicions haven't really changed, because neither person has done anything to make me feel better about them.

+-Inzil
or
+-Lhuna

[Lalaith]

Sorry as my two posts were split and also probably not making my intentions clear enough for the cuties. :-)

I could vote Eonwe, Brinn, or Boro, (same as my suspect list of yesterday) and could also be persuaded to Lommy and even Shasta. (for easons see my posts above)
Sorry that is a rather messy list but I make more sense at weekends when I'm not at work and have more time!
Btw I was skim-reading as much as I could, looking for stuff Legate had said that could have made the wolves think he was a Seer.
I didn't find anything precise but i did find this: he pointed out that Hui's saving of Brinn looked wolfy. That makes me feel better about voting Brinn, particularly as Hui was a first-time and therefore possibly not very tricksy wolf.

[Brinniel]

If we're doing this early fake voting, my preference would be +-Inzil.

[Pitchwife]

Lalaith's suspects, as of yesterDay:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I could vote Eonwe, Brinn, or Boro, (same as my suspect list of yesterday) and could also be persuaded to Lommy and even Shasta. (for easons see my posts above)[...]
Btw I was skim-reading as much as I could, looking for stuff Legate had said that could have made the wolves think he was a Seer.
I didn't find anything precise but i did find this: he pointed out that Hui's saving of Brinn looked wolfy. That makes me feel better about voting Brinn, particularly as Hui was a first-time and therefore possibly not very tricksy wolf.

Two of these (Eönwë and Lommy) were also quite consistently suspected by Lhuna, which could be a point in their favour. Now I don't recall playing with Lhuna before, so to those who have: How much wolf-on-wolf do you think she'd be willing to engage in?

[Lhunardawen]

Hmm. Interesting.


Well it's 3 AM here and I have work in 5 hours and I can barely keep my eye open, so I'll call it a night.

[THE Ka]

For referral, from yesterDay after QT vote:

Originally Posted by Legate

Also a quick list I made for myself just before I came back here:

Wary of:
Greenie
Lhuna
Inzil
Boro
Brinniel
Eönwë

Thought guilty earlier but think better now:
Lottie

Flip-floppy about:

Thinlómien
Sally
Lalaith
Macalaure

Nothing particular on:
Pitchwife
THE Ka

Feeling good about:
Kath
Shasta
Rune

Originally Posted by Lommy

For the record, he didn't single him out. I singled him out in my analysis. Because everyone else Legate called innocent he at least had some doubts about, or made a point in passing about how something they said could be suspicious. Rune is the only one he was unanimous about, but it was pretty vague.

I decided to go back, again, before my eye glazed over and try to find this reference to Legate's suspicion on Rune and discussion that Lhuna mentioned, because from this back and forth with Lommy I kept trying to figure out what the vital focus on Legate and Rune was.

Checked several posts with lists he makes, #667, #642, and then #632 which has the only direct mention of Rune that I can find. In it he is looking at votes for Day 2 and on the Rune topic for his vote for Lottie:

Originally Posted by Legate, post #632

Now depending on the context this could be anything: a throwaway, likely though not an attempt to save a packmate (too little momentum already and stronger bandwagons elsewhere). It looks mostly like an innocent going stubbornly after his own.

After reading it again, this supports Lommy's words more than Lhuna, which out of the two on trying to force the interest of suspicion, makes me a bit more wary of Lhuna's mounting interest in pushing it. Granted this could all be a possible fabricated tit-for-tat between the two, but I would assume both parties would have gone back and made sure the basis of the Rune-Legate connection checked out and not just one of them.

As for the QT and since Sally is the tiebreaker for their vote toDay (if I'm getting that right), back in post #724 Sally follows the theory that the QT vote is to be ignored since who is controlling it at that time. ToDay we'd have: G55 (cobbler), Rikae (villager), Kit (Ranger), Huin (Wolf), Sally (Hunter), and Mac (villager). I'm assuming Mac does count since he was lynchee ala Sally and not voted by the wolves?
That's 4-2 difference with far more insight and influence for innocents given the gifteds around them along with help from Legate. I find it hard that G55 and Huin could have thrown that vote to protect Lhuna and prevent us from picking her. So I can see Sally's stance changing but it gives me more reassurance she was at least aware yesterDay this could be a factor, along with Legate.

If I gave Lhuna the benefit of the doubt that she just slipped up, I still don't see it working in her favour as a wolf. It would be a gamble to put it all in Lommy's corner to argue and believe that none of us would go back and check Legate's posts for insights, let alone clues for who would want him out of the way the most if how it's looking the wolves thought he might have been a Seer candidate.

All this in mind, I'm trusting QT and going with:

++Lhunardawen

x'ed probably with everyone, been writing since 12:20 my time and haven't refreshed yet.

[RL - I have to step away now and check on family along with getting them to focus on travel plans before it's too late. Thanks again everyone for giving me a break.]

[Thinlómien]

...to see if people have already addressed issues I raised in my vote analysis post.

I'm somewhat worried to see that the timestamp of Zil's megapost against me is 8 minutes past the deadline. He spent the Night building an attack against me. I can't feel very good about this - even if given the amount of suspicion he's under, he could probably quite sure about his continued survival as an innocent too.

Originally Posted by Lottie

If I was a wolf, I would have been trying an awful lot harder to swing the vote Zil's direction, because I would have known for sure that Sally actually was the Hunter, and there would have been no motivation for me to lynch her. I voted for her because I thought there was an actual chance she was a wolf. If I really wanted to vote somewhere else, I could have pushed for Zil, who had also been suspected. In my opinion, the fact that there was no coherent alternative at all should speak to the idea that the people in Sally's crosshairs were not evil.

I'm still not sure why you were so convinced Sally would hunt you. Dare I say the p-word here? Hunters vote their hunt pick sometimes, but just as often they don't. I am somewhat thinking on the opposite lines to you here. Why indeed did no one really press the lynch towards Zil (or Boro, or Brinn - all three quite widely suspected)? Is that ecause they were somebody's packmates? (Not talking about Lottie here. I don't really suspect her, and she seemed to be fairly convinced Sally was a wolf until the last minutes.)

Originally Posted by Lalaith

For the same reason Legate did (we actually cross-posted) I got freaked out by the fact she didn't say who she was hunting. Up til then I'd been waiting on an agreed alternative to sally.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.....Shoulda just voted earlier for Eonwe. Not sure if it would have helped though. Zil was coming up as an alternative with a lot of people but I didn't really feel enthused by that alternative bandwaggon - I felt similar about him as I had about Mac - couldn't quite see what all the fuss and suspicion was about.

Okay, I see this answers a question I had to Lalaith. I'm a bit unsure whether I buy it or not. It sounds genuine enough, but if Zil is innocent, then this could easily be Lalwolf admitting reluctance to get her hands bloody by voting him.


edit: xed with Lal, gotcha!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kath

Actually, from what Lommy has said herself about her attitude towards the game, I could absolutely see a Lommywolf leading the charge and being entirely willing to take all the flack for it the following Day. What a great way to pull suspicion onto pretty much just one person. Even if she's lynched, if all the discussion has revolved around her and her actions at the end of yesterDay, it would surely leave fewer clues as to the identity of her fellow wolves.

The other important thing to consider here is, Lommy is a very good player who is very good at arguing for her innocence. If anyone could get away with encouraging the village to quarantine a Hunter who was very likely to take an innocent with her, it would be Lommy. With five wolves, I could see them agreeing that someone should be playing loud and bold, and that Lommy was the best person to do it.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Lommy my love - now this is too much. You seem to forget you were stomping all over the thread shouting at us about voting for Sally, we could barely get a word in edgeways!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Come on. I didn't force anyone to vote Sally yesterDay, yet most people still did. I don't have any magic manipulation powers. Yes, I was arguing quite vocally for lynching Sally. (Side note: so was Legate, a known innocent.) You guys could have let me yell at Sally alone and ignored me and voted for someone else. Yet you didn't. You can blame me for my decision that was bad in hindisight, but you can scarcely blame me for your own. The Sally lynch was not my doing alone, yet that narrative is very much being pushed. Do you know who benefit from that narrative? The wolves. Both the wolves who voted for Sally themselves, and even those who didn't, because it's making me an easy lynch candidate.

I'm with Lalaith here - it was very hard to think and plan around Lommy arguing that we should just quarantine Sally yesterDay. There wasn't another voice arguing with you, so we all just ended up quietly doing our own things without coordinating at all, and a lot of that (from what I remember) was just not being able to coordinate over you.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm still not sure why you were so convinced Sally would hunt you. Dare I say the p-word here? Hunters vote their hunt pick sometimes, but just as often they don't. I am somewhat thinking on the opposite lines to you here. Why indeed did no one really press the lynch towards Zil (or Boro, or Brinn - all three quite widely suspected)? Is that ecause they were somebody's packmates? (Not talking about Lottie here. I don't really suspect her, and she seemed to be fairly convinced Sally was a wolf until the last minutes.)

If you pay attention to Sally's posts yesterDay (before the reveal), you'd notice that she really didn't have a nuanced suspicion list. She suspected me, Pitch, and Mac, as far as I can tell based pretty much just on gut feeling. I didn't get any sense from Sally that she had a deeper plan going on. I got the sense that she was too RL busy to have any hidden suspicions. And I had the feeling that I was absolutely going to be her pick, and that if I wasn't, it was going to be Pitch or Mac - two people who, at that point in time, I really didn't think were wolves. Turned out I was right - I was her pick until one minute before the deadline, and when she changed it, it was to another person who was very, very likely innocent.

[Thinlómien]

(and then I'm gonna take a short break because I've spent basically all day on this game, ugh)


Innocentish

Lottie - I don't like how she's been focusing on just me toDay, but I maintain that her last minute hunter panic, as well as her Huine vote, make her look more innocent than not.

Pitch - also looks very innocent thanks to his Huine vote. I mean I guess I could reconsider that, but not toDay.

Rune - I think the Legate kill makes him look very good, and there's nothing at the moment to make me second guess it.


Ish

Kath - nothing super sinister or super reassuring going on here. I got mildly suspicious of her being so non-committal yesterDay, but the Legate kill perhaps makes her look mildly better.

Greenie - I have got a lot more genuine vibe from her toDay than before, perhaps because she has been talking more openly about her emotions/ thought processes (frustration over having been wrong, admitting ignoring Sally's hunter hint because she suspected her etc). Still, her track record is about as terrible as mine, and it would be very ironic if we were BOTH innocent. I still don't like how she steered clear of the whole Huinescussion on Day2 though.

Boro - started the game weird, then started to sound like his normal innocent self. Explained this with meta reasons which I was ready to accept, thought him pretty innocent. However, his Mac vote is still a little concerning, as is the fact that like with Inzil (see below), the suspicion against him somehow seldom materialises as votes. I should probably reconsider my good feeling about him (which, to be entirely honest might partly be based on him not suspecting me) but I don't think I'm gonna do that toDay.

Lalaith - I keep flipflopping here. I still don't like her indecisive going with the flow yesterDay, and I think her Huine vote looks faily likely to be a wolf-on-wolf. But then again, could innocent Lal play this way? Absolutely.

THE Ka - still very much in her own bubble, which freaks me out a little. But is that enough reason to considering voting her? Ehhhh...

Shasta - mmmmhhh I still like him in regards to the Kit thing, and I like his independent thinking. But I don't like how he's now spent two days hovering around until the deadline and casting an absolutely meaningless vote. Talk about people who keep their hands clean. Possibly looks a tidbit better for the Legate kill though.


Suspiciousish

Lhuna - she is playing very safe and avoiding connections to most players. I don't like it.

Inzil - the next ??????? for me. I still don't like his Mac vote, and I don't like the way he's gunning for me right now, and I don't like how despite "everybody" suspecting him an actual zillynch has failed gaining traction repeatedly. Is it because a lot of the suspicion on him has been wolf-on-wolf? His weird vote yesterDay doesn't feel to wolvish though, and I am somewhat afraid he could be a very similarly misguided innocent as I have been. It would be all too ironic.

Brinniel - I am honestly quite puzzled how this game seems to orbit around her. She gets suspected, but never lynched. The evil QT have latched onto her (hopefully we'll learn more about that in three hours). If Legate had been considered seer, paranoid Brinn could have been behind that (just like with the Rikae kill, may I add). Everyone talks about her all the time but she is quite non-committal in her comments about people and keeps voting safely. Huine defended her in a striking way that could however be just as well wolf-on-wolf as wolf-on-innocent. If I would lynch anyone just to shed light on everybody's roles, I'd pick Brinn. But I'm not 100% she's a likely enough wolf that it's a good idea.

Eönwë - I can't quite put my finger on it, but my vibe of him in this game is very opportunistic and evasive, and he's been involved in several dodgy puddles (such as last minute voting in Huine-vs-Mac, or possibly his Sally vote yesterDay which I'd like to hear more about).


edit: xed with everyone

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Everybody sing along with me:

Dead innocents don't know anyone's role,
Dead innocents don't know anyone's role etc.

Which is to say, even though they're free of evil intentions, our beloved quarantined may still be wrong and the baddies can hijack a vote for a non-wolf.

No, they don't, but they have read Gal and Huine's interactions on the QT thread and know what lead them to pick Brinn yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Kath

The first vote after the reveal was Lottie's, half an hour after sally's vote, and that was with 7 minutes to go, and by the look of it almost every vote from then cross posted. Out of all 9 actual voters there, no one took the plunge of pushing forward another candidate fast enough. Very likely there are wolves who didn't want to be the first onto an alternative bandwagon who were watching the insanity with glee. But looking at the lateness of Legate and Mac's votes, who we now know were innocent, means not immediately throwing out an alternative doesn't automatically equal wolf.

Yes, but Legate for instance was quite convinced of Sally's guilt. Mac wasn't.

I'm getting more and more convinced it is not in the innocents' interests for everyone to leave their votes to the last minute. (Why do you think I've voted earlier than I had to 2 days in a row?) Dudes, let's learn from our mistakes and spread out the votes a little toDay, so we have time to discuss and react to each other's votes. Please.

Originally Posted by Lottie

The other important thing to consider here is, Lommy is a very good player who is very good at arguing for her innocence. If anyone could get away with encouraging the village to quarantine a Hunter who was very likely to take an innocent with her, it would be Lommy. With five wolves, I could see them agreeing that someone should be playing loud and bold, and that Lommy was the best person to do it.

Awwww, this warms my heart a little! But to be honest, I am a crappy and unhappy liar irl and it often shows in werewolf too *points at signature*

Originally Posted by Lottie

I'm with Lalaith here - it was very hard to think and plan around Lommy arguing that we should just quarantine Sally yesterDay. There wasn't another voice arguing with you, so we all just ended up quietly doing our own things without coordinating at all, and a lot of that (from what I remember) was just not being able to coordinate over you.

Then the question you should ask is probably why was there not another voice arguing with me? Why did everyone keep discussing Sally? Like it's been said, she revealed 45min before the deadline. Not as much time as would be ideal, but certainly plenty. Did the discussion loop around Sally because both innocents who wrongly suspected Sally and wolves thought lynching Sally was a good course of action? Then who was who?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm getting more and more convinced it is not in the innocents' interests for everyone to leave their votes to the last minute. (Why do you think I've voted earlier than I had to 2 days in a row?) Dudes, let's learn from our mistakes and spread out the votes a little toDay, so we have time to discuss and react to each other's votes. Please.

Or, so you and your mates have a little breathing room?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Then the question you should ask is probably why was there not another voice arguing with me? Why did everyone keep discussing Sally? Like it's been said, she revealed 45min before the deadline. Not as much time as would be ideal, but certainly plenty. Did the discussion loop around Sally because both innocents who wrongly suspected Sally and wolves thought lynching Sally was a good course of action? Then who was who?

Ah, so it's the innocents' fault for listening to you?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Then the question you should ask is probably why was there not another voice arguing with me? Why did everyone keep discussing Sally? Like it's been said, she revealed 45min before the deadline. Not as much time as would be ideal, but certainly plenty. Did the discussion loop around Sally because both innocents who wrongly suspected Sally and wolves thought lynching Sally was a good course of action? Then who was who?

I can only know what I was thinking and feeling at the time, which was of course clouded by my knowing that if Sally really was the Hunter, I was probably in real danger of being hunted. But I was so confused and overwhelmed that whole time. I wasn't able to come up with a coherent argument. I flopped between "she's the Hunter, I am absolutely not voting her, I don't want to die!" and "there's no way, she's gotta be a wolf, we need to just quarantine her". I could imagine that you might have just decided to go with the second option and not even consider that she might have been the Hunter. I could also imagine that you knew for a fact that she wasn't a wolf. But you definitely weren't reacting the same way I was, and the fact that no one else was able to make a coherent argument, either, suggests to me that my reaction - being confused and overwhelmed - might have been a really common reaction to have.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Lottie - I don't like how she's been focusing on just me toDay, but I maintain that her last minute hunter panic, as well as her Huine vote, make her look more innocent than not.

You're not wrong about this, though. I'd like to see more from Boro, and while Zil sounds more innocent toDay, I haven't forgotten about him, either. I'll do a list in a minute here, because I do think there is a danger of letting the quieter players just slip right out of view.

[Loslote]

Feeling good about:
I don't trust anyone this much right now.

Feeling okay about:
Pitch - Ever since his vote on Huin, I've felt pretty good about Pitch. He comes across as genuine. Also, I don't think Huin would have pushed that hard for the GLP thing if there was actually a wolf in it.
Kath - She's seemed engaged and helpful. I like what she has to say.
Rune - He's seemed more genuine lately, I feel okay about him at this point.
Shasta - He's done some things that are very innocent-looking, though he hasn't really gotten his hands dirty wolf-hunting yet, so I'm not going to fully trust him.

Feeling nothing about:
Lalaith - She feels very neutral to me. I haven't seen anything that jumps out as suspicious, but if she turned out to be a submarine wolf, I wouldn't be shocked, either.
Brinn - Brinn doesn't strike me as especially suspicious, but with all the controversy around her, I can't say that I have a strong sense of her alignment one way or the other.

Feeling dubious about:
Greenie - She's flown right under my radar somehow, but I think she's been extremely helpful without actually pushing the village in any particular direction, which makes me feel a little uneasy. I don't have her at the top of my suspicion list, but I can't say that I trust her at all.
Lhuna - She's been very quiet, which I can't exactly blame her for, but I haven't seen any proof that I can trust her, either.
Eönwë - I don't have much of a read at all, but he does feel like he could possibly be a submarine wolf.
THE Ka - I don't trust her, but I don't have super solid reasons to suspect her, just a feeling.

Feeling bad about:
Zil - I've felt better about him toDay, but I can't ignore the timing of his vote or the weird behavior yesterDay, in particular how he wasn't adding any new suspicions after his Mac vote, which just felt like a way for a wolf to avoid tying himself to his packmates.
Lommy - Her gleeful attitude at the deadline yesterDay feels too different from how I and others were feeling for me to think we're coming at this game from the same perspective. I also find it suspicious that she almost completely ignored Boro yesterDay in favor of focusing on Sally and Zil. I understand she had other reasons to suspect them, but to just not mention Boro at all seems like they might be packmates.
Boro - I've been suspicious of Boro for Days now, and his vote for Mac looks pretty bad. I also don't at all like that he asked me how I was able to convince Sally - to me, that reads a wolf whose pack decided I probably wasn't the Seer, but who really wanted to prod a little to be sure.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Although Pitch - at the risk of sounding a hypocrite, why didn't you vote Eonwe earlier?

I should really have done that and hoped somebody would follow suit - both Legate and Rune seemed interested, not sure whether there would have been enough others to save sally. I just waited too long whether anybody else was going to suggest an alternative to sally that I could get behind, and then between refreshing and discussing what to do all of a sudden there were five more votes for sally in less than five minutes, and it was too late.

Originally Posted by Kath re QT vote

That really will be interesting in terms of Brinn. We haven't really been able to tell whether it's the baddies pushing that name or not the past two Days, whereas toDay the innocents definitely control the vote.

Everybody sing along with me:


Dead innocents don't know anyone's role,
Dead innocents don't know anyone's role etc.


Which is to say, even though they're free of evil intentions, our beloved quarantined may still be wrong and the baddies can hijack a vote for a non-wolf.