Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood - Dead Thread

[Nogrod]

A few comments on some things that I think I'd like to clarify or answer to. Just hoping to make myself understood.


hS on reasons he was suspected:

Originally Posted by hs

-Actively pushing people to try and get reads on them draws attention. Not much I can do about that - I get my best reads off people by interacting with them, and I refuse to sit quietly and not play the game.

-I'm saying too much of what I'm thinking. This covers both the paranoia theory and Nog's whole thing. I mean... I kind of see the point, but not sharing my thoughts means the rest of the village aren't getting all the information. I want to make sure that they understand what I'm trying to say and do

You're quite correct with the first one (I really know that from experience - the latest being partly this game), but that was not the reason I suspected you, and neither is the second one (which I think has more or less nothing to do with why people suspected you).

To sum up my suspicions on you, I'd say you were kind of overdoing everything. In the beginning it was the constant underlining of doing some elaborate tests on people, kind of overdoing something like "hey look at me, I'm sharp and doing good things for all of us, so do not lynch me", But the jumping through the roof with a weird conspiracy-theory was probably the thing which put the ball in motion. A wolf, or a gifted, might do that, hardly any normal villager (wolves and gifteds tend to be jumpier than innocents). I noticed it, but also thought it possible you're a gifted and thus went on in a low profile with it, well willing to fish out some reactions from you. But then you made that odd post no innocent should say - and that kind of did it for me.

Originally Posted by hS

Unlike me, he made no indication that he was pressed for time, so he could absolutely have gone back to check whether I ever suspected Form.

Well, it's not exactly true that you suspected Form initially - at least you don't say that in the thread, if you did. You were engaged with him in a disagreement of the Day1 and its uses, and then you said you were seeing him more innocent than not. But anyway, that wasn't the main point of my suspicion. That was the oddity of saying: I suspected him + I have a bad judgement = I vote him. A wolf might slip like that writing stuff in haste, but an innocent wouldn't (well, you most clearly did, so I was wrong - but I hope you see why I saw it thusly and that why it is a reasonable thought).

Originally Posted by hS

Um... yes? I feel like 'Why wouldn't the wolves have killed X? Well, maybe X is a wolf!' is pretty logical thinking?

Et tu, Brute!

That quote is not from a discussion concerning Mac's role (whether he's innocent or a wolf). It is part of a speculation, whom the wolves might have found seerish - and for that you have to assume people innocent, naturally (because you don't know whom not to count because they actually are wolves). Now Brinn tried to make that look like I'm a wolf who knows Mac is innocent because I said he could have been seen as a seer... Holy Moses. And you gave her the extra vote... Holy Abraham.

Originally Posted by Nog

Nog's 'people suspecting me are out to ruin my game' doesn't ring true to me.

Heh. That was actually a burst of most sincere frustration. Fun fact (at least I believe it's a fact): I tend to live much longer as a wolf than as an innocent. I guess I know why. As a wolf I care first and foremost what others think of me and try to rub people the right way. As an innocent I try my best to find the wolves and don't care that much about appearances. It just feels wrong not to voice some suspicions because someone might think bad of you when you're innocent: when a wolf, image is everything, because there is no substance.

Originally Posted by hS

That's what I was seeing! Nog is sounding like me from last game (mostly in the Cutie-bar or in my own notes) - deeply frustrated that people are suspecting him over things he meant seriously.

My daughter clearly knows me too well. I do hate it the most when a wolf and people suspect me for wrong reasons. That's so unbearable! It's almost as infuriating as hearing someone using bad arguments (in RL) on behalf of a proposition dear to you. Yes it was frustrating to sit by the laptop and see that no-one seemed to see what I was really doing, but just harping on those hostile or misunderstood talking points.




Well, this turned out quite a rant. But let's say that's it for my part: at least I got a chance to vent off all my leftover frustrations.

Let's hope someone makes sense on Day3 so that we can give a double-vote that does something good.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You're quite correct with the first one (I really know that from experience - the latest being partly this game), but that was not the reason I suspected you, and neither is the second one (which I think has more or less nothing to do with why people suspected you).

To sum up my suspicions on you, I'd say you were kind of overdoing everything. In the beginning it was the constant underlining of doing some elaborate tests on people, kind of overdoing something like "hey look at me, I'm sharp and doing good things for all of us, so do not lynch me", But the jumping through the roof with a weird conspiracy-theory was probably the thing which put the ball in motion. A wolf, or a gifted, might do that, hardly any normal villager (wolves and gifteds tend to be jumpier than innocents). I noticed it, but also thought it possible you're a gifted and thus went on in a low profile with it, well willing to fish out some reactions from you. But then you made that odd post no innocent should say - and that kind of did it for me.

I think this comes down to word choice again - 'this is a plan that could net wolves' and 'this looks like wolves out to get me' are both things I was thinking but probably shouldn't have been saying.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, it's not exactly true that you suspected Form initially - at least you don't say that in the thread, if you did. You were engaged with him in a disagreement of the Day1 and its uses, and then you said you were seeing him more innocent than not. But anyway, that wasn't the main point of my suspicion. That was the oddity of saying: I suspected him + I have a bad judgement = I vote him. A wolf might slip like that writing stuff in haste, but an innocent wouldn't (well, you most clearly did, so I was wrong - but I hope you see why I saw it thusly and that why it is a reasonable thought).

Your confidence in my consistency is pleasant but misplaced. I was poking Form until he said something that sounded innocent, so in my mind (writing in haste + several hours later) I must have suspected him. As for the 'suspected + judgement' thing - there was a slip, but it was in thinking I'd mentioned suspecting him earlier in the post. My meaning was 'I suspected him, then I thought he was innocent (but people are saying I was wrong)'.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh. That was actually a burst of most sincere frustration.

Well, now we know that. But you have to admit, getting 'genuinely' upset/frustrated is great cover for a wolf.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I do hate it the most when a wolf and people suspect me for wrong reasons. That's so unbearable! It's almost as infuriating as hearing someone using bad arguments (in RL) on behalf of a proposition dear to you.

Right?!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, this turned out quite a rant. But let's say that's it for my part: at least I got a chance to vent off all my leftover frustrations.

I think that's one of the best things about a Dead Thread, personally: getting to complain about being killed when it's still fresh enough to matter, to people who sympathise. (I mean, until the wolves start arriving; we all know what they're like.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let's hope someone makes sense on Day3 so that we can give a double-vote that does something good.

Please. :-/ And if the wolves could kill the Cobbler and get Beast Hunted doing so, that would be great too.

hS

[Boromir88]

Nogrod what the village really needs is a Boro-wolf to stir the pot. Too many folks talking about who is a gifted and who is a cobbler, forgetting there's 4 werewolves! But sometimes the first werewolf is the hardest to get and once one goes they all start to topple.

How about with regards to Huey's question...

If we had gone +-Lommy, and Shasta hadn't added that final Form vote, Boro would have had to figure out how a Medium affects the 'first to reach the tie' rule. Could've been fun!

It depends on when the person chosen as the Medium voted? So, Lommy was considered as a Medium, if she got it. Looking at the tally:

Greenie > Kath
BG > Form
Form > Kath (2)
Mac > Nilp
Nilp > Mac
Lommy > Form (2) +1 Medium (3)
Kath > Nilp (2)
Rikae > Nogrod
Legate > Nogrod (2)
Nogrod > Form (4)
Pitch > Nog (3)
Sally > Nilp (3)
Brinn > Nog (4)


Shasta under this comes in to add a final vote that would have put Form to 5. But If Lommy was chosen as the medium, since she voted before Brinn. If Lommy had been chosen as the Medium then Form would have been lynched.

What do you feel about that? I'd like some opinions, whatever I finally decide I'll post in the Game thread and Planning thread too, just so all the players know.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nogrod what the village really needs is a Boro-wolf to stir the pot. Too many folks talking about who is a gifted and who is a cobbler, forgetting there's 4 werewolves! But sometimes the first werewolf is the hardest to get and once one goes they all start to topple.

And that's somethin the wolfpack remarked in your game too Nogrod. A lot of just open discussion about the who has a gifted role. Maybe we're all a little rusty and need to remember the goal is to lynch wolves.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boro

What do you feel about that? I'd like some opinions, whatever I finally decide I'll post in the Game thread and Planning thread too, just so all the players know.

I think it makes sense, as the idea is that the Medium's vote is doubled, so it makes sense that it counts as their actual vote. It also adds a bit more strategy over here - we could be in a situation where we either Medium someone we don't trust (but who voted early + right) , or someone who voted late (but we trust).

hS

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Maybe we're all a little rusty and need to remember the goal is to lynch wolves.

That might be true - and even if I was, at least on my mind, mainly trying to find the wolves, I really noticed the lack of playing the game in many situations (like reading the rules sloppily as the crown-jewel of it).



After sleeping on it, I realized there are actually three possibilities of handling the extra-vote. As it looks to be in the nature of Death Threads that they empower Brinn, let me use her as an example.

1. The extra-vote takes place at the DL, as the last vote by definition - so no matter when Brinn casts her vote or when we here decide it's going to be her, it will be the last vote on the tally (and here you see the two other options). On a positive note, it is clear and straightforward and gives the mod the minimum headache being easy to count in case of a tie. On a negative side it is a bit boring - well at last it doesn't give room to any added drama.

2. The extra-vote takes place when Brinn gives her vote (like in your example). That would add some hair raising unpredictability, or add flavor to playing tactically in the Dead Thread. The first would happen if Brinn would hold her vote to the very end, the second if she casts it early and we had time to think about its consequences vs. some other choice.

3. The wild-card version would be, that the extra vote takes place at the moment we have the majority aka. over half of us has empowered Brinn - whether she has voted already or not. That would actually be quite crazy in here. I mean we could really make sure that if there is a tie, our way will win it (it could be the first vote of the Day, if we thus wanted) - but it might mean we don't know where the vote we will empower would then go to. In reality though, I'm afraid it would just mean our extra-vote taking place after Brinn has voted, as especially when the number of people here grows, we're less likely to achieve a majority decision early on the Day.


But yes, I guess all version have their pros and cons, so I'm happy with any one of them. (And I might have forgotten something crucial from my speculation, so please do hS and Lottie also think them around once to see any flaws there.)



On a totally different issue.

So who do you think will make us company in a few hours? I must admit, I'm pretty clueless right now - to me the village seems to be full of wolves, so it's hard to see anyone as such securely innocent that I'd presume that person coming here - not to talk of having any seer-vibes or such.

Ok. Disaster-version: Mac actually is the Seer and is killed toNight because of the discussions yesterDay.

Another result that would make me disappear from the planet for a few lifetimes in shame would be seeing Legate here.

Did you notice anything the wolves might think as seerish in yesterDay's posting? I think I was too busy thinking different issues yesterDay.

[Loslote]

I unfortunately didn’t see anyone looking like bait yesterDay, so we probably won’t see a Ranger save or a Hunted Beast. I would almost guess the wolves will go for someone who could be interpreted as trying to lay low, rather than looking for Seer hints.

[Huinesoron]

Not a bally clue. On my past showing, it'll probably be someone I think is obviously evil.

hS