Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood - Game Thread

[Macalaure]

*mutterandthisiswhyiwantedtodothisfirstthingmutter *

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

*mutterandthisiswhyiwantedtodothisfirstthingmutter *

And I saw the problem with it then but was hesitant to bring it up for exactly this reason, any discussion gets accused of "muddling". But since I'm not the only one who saw a problem I thought maybe we could improve it some and avoid the drawback I saw (the alphabetical list pairs people I think are likely to be wolves together, in fact).

It wouldn't be muddling if we'd clearly highlight an official list at a reasonable hour, but at this point we are running out of time to do that, and most of the delay comes from people getting upset the discussion is happening at all!

[Macalaure]

Fine then. This is not worth arguing about from my point of view.

DEAD PEEPS - USE RIKAE'S LIST!

[Kath]

Yeah ok let's go for consensus. If the Dead Thread hate the list they can just vote no Medium.

Rikae's list it is.

[satansaloser2005]

It's better to use something we already had standing earlier in the day. Nilp seemed okay with Mac's list. No one has really given any good reasons why the list wouldn't work. Yes, maybe Mac is manipulating things because he's a wolf. That could be true of anyone except Nilp. The list is alphabetical, not randomly organized, so I think it's a fair list to use for this purpose. If we want to get more information from the dead thread toMorrow, we can use a different list. I don't care. But let's not change what we're doing when the dead thread may not be able to adjust to a change.

x'd since my last

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Look, I just think with 5 good votes to 4 evil ones right now, using the Medium vote for information only could be what tips the scale here. If there's a way to do both (info AND as vote strength) I'm all for it.

I do think anyone wanting to have a "no vote" is misguided at best and wolvish at worst. We do not have that luxury.

[Rikae]

Oh dear ... Sally has a point.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It isn't overstating it to say that we're in a position where if a good votes another good we straight-up lose.

[Thinlómien]

Seriously dudes. What the [censored]. Can you Rikae and Mac agree on a list since you got us into this mess. Please. I'm gonna wash my hands of this.

I'm in the middle of writing an analysis about everybody's interactions toDay (which I will post when I'm done) and I feel like I'm having a bit of revelation. Could you Mac, Rikae and Pitch please stop squabbling if you're all innocent (I understand one of you might be the cobbler and intentionally messing around) and answer me (Kath can also answer, I almost trust you now funnily enough and hey Nilp, sure if you're around!) but:

Brinn / Shasta / Sally pack, anyone? Nicely flying under our radars the whole time? Scarcely mentioning each other? It suddenly makes a lot of sense to me.

Thoughts?


edit: xed with the last 3 posts

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Brinn / Shasta / Sally pack, anyone? Nicely flying under our radars the whole time? Scarcely mentioning each other? It suddenly makes a lot of sense to me.

Thoughts?

I dunno. Shasta has his voting record speaking against him, but his posts toDay ring innocent to me. Sally is always difficult to read for me, so I wouldn't rule anything out. I admit I haven't looked near enough at Brinn so far to come to a qualified conclusion.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Brinn / Shasta / Sally pack, anyone? Nicely flying under our radars the whole time? Scarcely mentioning each other? It suddenly makes a lot of sense to me.

Any of them could be wolves but I don't see any particular case for all together (have been considering Brinn/Lommy/? or Brinn/Shasta/?).

I guess a list:

Red:

Nobody. Everyone at this point has some non-wolfish points in their favor. I'm really worried about voting wrong today.

Yellow:

Brinn - like I said before, I find the way she seemed to be steering the village early toDay a bit unnerving - a little too sure about Lommy and Shasta.

Lommy - also unnerving, was partially her trust of Brinn which, when I mentioned it, she dropped, which kind of makes it worse.

Sally - Something about the way she backed off after questioning seems more cautious than her usual self, plus I feel like she's been getting suspiciously little attention, as though she was a known innocent, which she is not.

Pitch - Quite touchy, and I don't remember him being that way in past games.

Yellow-green:

Shasta - I do consider him a possible innocent dream, but also quite possible he is not, and I have actually been getting cobblerish vibes from him. It was weird how he went after me for something based on a quote that had the answer in it - I'm thinking, he knew what he wanted to say before he read it and didn't read it.

Kath - Like I said, I think Greenie's survival points to her not being a wolf. Not 100% but it's something to go on at least.

Mac - he thought I was the seer. I mean, it could be a bluff, but it looked genuine to me.

Green:

Nilp: If there were another real BH I assume they would have stepped up.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Rikae - I didn't go after you, I asked you a question. You answered. I was satisfied with that answer, so I moved on.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nilp: If there were another real BH I assume they would have stepped up.

If the cobbler were smart, they would have done it and gotten Nilp lynched. Guess we don't have a very bright cobbler.

[Kath]

So I think Pitch actually might be the Cobbler after all given his posting.

Mac is on much the same lines as me which is making me inclined to trust him.

Lommy is driving me insane and that feels like normal so I guess I feel ok about her.

Nilp I am going on trust as the BH.

Leaving me with Brinn, Rikae, sally and Shasta.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, we've made our bed, now let's lie in it. I hope the dead thread can make it work, or we're all potentially very dead.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, I currently think Mac and Kath are evil together and Sally feels good. So there's that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hrm. That last post of Lommy's - I like the washing of the hands, but that conclusion... oof.

[satansaloser2005]

The idea of Rikae (now suspecting strongly because of all of the shenanigans) and Mac (already suspected for quite some time now) being wolves together seems a little off to me. I'm not saying Boro would reroll if they came up together, but it would also give them an accidental advantage to be in the same house.

I actually feel almost better about Kath toDay, though I think part of that is because of the other nonsense going on. Still toward the top of my list, but I'd be happy to lynch Mac toDay instead. Then again, both could be wolves! That would be nice, as I'd have had three out of four pegged.

Shasta and Nilp won't be receiving my vote, nor I think will Lommy. Someone would have to come up with a very strong case indeed for me to vote for her.

Pitch is always an enigma for me. If people are right and he's the cobbler, we can't afford to lynch him toDay anyway, so going off other people's suspicions, I'm not inclined to vote for him either.


x'd since my last

[Pitchwife]

sallly! Really! When Mac himself hath spoken, what further need to belabour the point? Who's manipulating and obfuscating now?


The alphabet is as random as anything (unlike, say, Tengwar and Angerthas), which is why Mac's proposal to tie toDay's Medium empowerment to something as random as which player follows which in the alphabet rather than concrete suspicions, likely or unlikely pack constellations etc. didn't and doesn't sit right with me. He's backpedalled now, but it still may have been an attempt by a wolf to manipulate the empowerment while looking super helpful. And if this is so, I could see either of Kath and Lommy as his packmate and the other as the cobbler.


That said, I can live with Rikae's list.

[Thinlómien]

Okay *stops washing hands*

LET'S GO WITH RIKAE'S LIST THEN AND STOP DEBATING.

[Thinlómien]

Okay more spoilers from my upcoming posts:

I'm getting really worried about Brinn. (This is gonna slightly rephrase something Rikae said earlier, I believe, but I just made the same observation myself.) She has spent lots of energy analysing things toDay and whether she's looking at who said what about Legate, or what Legate said about others, or randomly analysing Pitchwife, the same people come off as guilty every single time: Kath, Mac and Pitch, with an occasional Rikae or Sally thrown in.

You would think an innocent's posts would have more variation and genuine flipflopping/hesitation, but Brinn seems pretty certain.

Which makes me think Brinn's a wolf trying to lay grounds for voting and make sure a not-wolf gets lynched.

Which would likely make Pitch, Kath and Mac innocent, and Shasta whom Brinn scarcely mentions except to say Greenie maybe dreamt of innocent!Shasta a likely fellow wolf. The remaining wolf would then be either Sally or Rikae.


edit: xed with Shasta and Mac

[Kath]

I quite like the irony in Lommy, who was the first person to modify the list, washing her hands of the whole thing and claiming everybody else were the ones to mess it up.

It's still between Brinn, Rikae, sally and Shasta for me. That's not in order of suspicion as I now need to go look at them.

[Thinlómien]

Sheesh Kath, I suggested a small edit something like 6h before the deadline. Absolutely different from these last hours' mess.

That vote of Shasta's I'm not too happy with. We cannot afford to mislynch toDay. I think an innocent would not be so quick to vote someone toDay without weighing their decision.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

sallly! Really! When Mac himself hath spoken, what further need to belabour the point? Who's manipulating and obfuscating now?

I was on a conference call and had the post open, so neener.


Who who the fork are we even lynching?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Can you Rikae and Mac agree on a list since you got us into this mess.

Really?

I tried to fix this mess. Rikae at least was constructive. Pitch and Shasta were criticizing things without offering an alternative!

I don't want to be kneejerk and say one is a cobbler and one is a wolf, but one is a cobbler and one is a wolf!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Brinn / Shasta / Sally pack, anyone?

Shasta very much. Sally maybe. Brinn I find unlikely. I think you're too quick to discard Pitch as a cobbler.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Absolutely not.

++Macalaure