The riddle of the hidden images in the West Gate. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inziladun · 07-07-2020, 12:02 PM

Threads of this ilk are to me another reminder (if any was required) of the wisdom of Gandalf:

Quote:

“He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.”

monks · 07-07-2020, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Threads of this ilk are to me another reminder (if any was required) of the wisdom of Gandalf:

Oh that little chestnut. Ha. Tolkien explicitly set riddles (Bombadil) and anagrams- Adam Roberts Acrostic...Priya's anagrams...etc..Seven Rivers anyone?...so how are we supposed to solve them then? By using the Force? lol

Tolkien was dying to tell Kilby...because he was so damn PROUD of what he'd achieved. Tolkien knew he was the "Great Master"- see my reply above. The sexual content possibly held him back...and I think he just wanted to carry on being the only one 'in the know' and let the riddle stand. However having said that, from Kilby's words, I think he may well have told Kilby something after all...or Kilby suspected what it might have involved. He was with him, we weren't - many of the details are lost to us. If he did, Kilby must have made an NDA. See my essay Tolkien's Contrasistency http://www.thewindrose.net/blogs/tol...ontrasistency/

It also feeds into his opinion on Shakespeare too. He believed that he was better than Shakespeare- his inspirations were Dante and Plato. I believe he had a grudging respect of Shakespeare too though. That's where am I at the moment regards Tolkien and Shakespeare.

monks

monks · 10-08-2020, 07:29 AM

NEW EVIDENCE FOUND. See here.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=729150

William Cloud Hicklin · 10-08-2020, 12:12 PM

You do realize that the picture of Durin's Doors in the published book was drawn by one of the publisher's professional artists, not by Tolkien?

monks · 10-08-2020, 05:02 PM

The two pictures which are the subject of my last post and the update to my essay from the new evidence found are left and right here:

http://www.thewindrose.net/mythopostupdate/

Which are both on the opposite sides of the same piece of paper.

What part of that don't you understand?

Hammond and Scull even tell us that Tolkien drew both of those images.

"Tolkien appears to have drawn the west-gate of the Mines of Moria first in faint pencil, with ornate doors, a flight of steps, and spiraled columns set into a hillside and flanked by two trees or large shrubs (fig 38). Then on the reverse side of the same sheet, he made a more refined version in coloured pencil (fig. 39), seen from a greater distance, with cliff walls much taller relative to the gate,..." [The Art of the Lord of the Rings, Hammond and Scull, p62]

lmao!

And while I'm here. The first page I turned to when the book (with this new evidence) came through the mail was p.69 here:

http://www.thewindrose.net/blogs/a-l...esentwined_1k/

And I've talked about the two spirals on the West Gate and elsewhere being the same symbol as the Two Trees from the wedding poem. Two trees 'utterly entwined' -go see etymology of entwine (Old English twin "double thread," from Proto-Germanic *twiznaz "double thread, twisted thread"). And there you see two trees entwining in the draft for the illustration of the West Gate which also ended up with the two spiraled columns in them. I'd never seen that illustration either because its not published anywhere else.

And for your information..just to keep you up to speed here...you can find the same motif, the same symbol in his illustration 'Tumble Hill near Lyme R'. I know that because I've also studied that picture too. The crossed trees are the Door, the megalithic Door, the Dagaz Rune. The path leading up to that in that image is the Straight Road. If you study the geography of Tumble Hill you'll find some more interesting things including Dragon's Hill and 'Devil's Bellows'...nothing to do with the bull in the Moria riddle at all of course heh...

bellow (v.)
early 14c., apparently from Old English bylgan "to bellow," from PIE root *bhel- (4) "to sound, roar." Originally of animals, especially cows and bulls; used of human beings since c. 1600. Related: Bellowed; bellowing. As a noun, "a loud, deep cry," from 1763.

And what's the sound made by the troll in the Chamber of Mazarbul? Bellow. The same chamber that has the Book of Maze-Ar(Sun)-bull in it with page 5 Looking awfully like the head of a bull.

monks

10-08-2020, 12:12 PM	#4
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	You do realize that the picture of Durin's Doors in the published book was drawn by one of the publisher's professional artists, not by Tolkien? __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

10-08-2020, 07:29 AM	#3
monks Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 35	NEW EVIDENCE FOUND. See here. http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=729150

10-08-2020, 05:02 PM	#5
monks Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 35	The two pictures which are the subject of my last post and the update to my essay from the new evidence found are left and right here: http://www.thewindrose.net/mythopostupdate/ Which are both on the opposite sides of the same piece of paper. What part of that don't you understand? Hammond and Scull even tell us that Tolkien drew both of those images. "Tolkien appears to have drawn the west-gate of the Mines of Moria first in faint pencil, with ornate doors, a flight of steps, and spiraled columns set into a hillside and flanked by two trees or large shrubs (fig 38). Then on the reverse side of the same sheet, he made a more refined version in coloured pencil (fig. 39), seen from a greater distance, with cliff walls much taller relative to the gate,..." [The Art of the Lord of the Rings, Hammond and Scull, p62] lmao! And while I'm here. The first page I turned to when the book (with this new evidence) came through the mail was p.69 here: http://www.thewindrose.net/blogs/a-l...esentwined_1k/ And I've talked about the two spirals on the West Gate and elsewhere being the same symbol as the Two Trees from the wedding poem. Two trees 'utterly entwined' -go see etymology of entwine (Old English twin "double thread," from Proto-Germanic twiznaz "double thread, twisted thread"). And there you see two trees entwining in the draft for the illustration of the West Gate which also ended up with the two spiraled columns in them. I'd never seen that illustration either because its not published anywhere else. And for your information..just to keep you up to speed here...you can find the same motif, the same symbol in his illustration 'Tumble Hill near Lyme R'. I know that because I've also studied that picture too. The crossed trees are the Door, the megalithic Door, the Dagaz Rune. The path leading up to that in that image is the Straight Road. If you study the geography of Tumble Hill you'll find some more interesting things including Dragon's Hill and 'Devil's Bellows'...nothing to do with the bull in the Moria riddle at all of course heh... bellow (v.) early 14c., apparently from Old English bylgan "to bellow," from PIE root bhel- (4) "to sound, roar." Originally of animals, especially cows and bulls; used of human beings since c. 1600. Related: Bellowed; bellowing. As a noun, "a loud, deep cry," from 1763. And what's the sound made by the troll in the Chamber of Mazarbul? Bellow. The same chamber that has the Book of Maze-Ar(Sun)-bull in it with page 5 Looking awfully like the head of a bull. monks