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Old 07-08-2020, 10:10 AM   #1
Victariongreyjoy
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Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
Elves and Men had drifted apart in the three millennia since the Last Alliance. The Elves kept to themselves and thought it best that mortals and immortals not mingle (save in the house of the half-Elf Elrond); and Lorien in particular valued armed secrecy, a latter-day Doriath. Not that other Elves were much more outgoing; the behavior of the Wood-elves in The Hobbit would have been normal, not something specially cooked up for Thorin & Co. While the interests of commerce did generate contact (the raft-Elves' trade with Lake-town), note that the Elves visited Esgaroth but not, apparently, vice-versa; Men were not welcome within Thranduil's borders.

And Men, naturally, were suspicious of that which they did not understand and thought alien, hence the superstitious dread exhibited by the Rohirrim. Men of Gondor, or at least the upper classes, would not have been so narrow-minded; but it's clear from Boromir's dream/mission and Denethor's advice that neither knew anything even of Rivendell save as a legendary Shangri-la somewhere in the North. It's fair to say that their attitude would have been one of superstitious awe rather than superstitious dread.
Could the loss of the king of Gondor, Earnur and the destruction of Arnor, be one of the main reasons why men and elves drifted away from each other?
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:24 AM   #2
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Northmen of Rhovanion

I read that Rohan's ancestor, the Northmen of Rhovanion, helped the host of the west against the final assault of Angmar. So in the early period of the third age, middle-men were used to seeing elves I suppose?
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:55 PM   #3
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Could the loss of the king of Gondor, Earnur and the destruction of Arnor, be one of the main reasons why men and elves drifted away from each other?
Definitely, it's a related topic if not definitively--and the last recorded Elf/Gondorian encounter was Eärnur's conversation with Glorfindel when Gondor's fleet showed up too late save Arthedain.

Eriador, far more so than the lands about the Bay of Belfalas, had some intermingling of Elves and Men. We don't know for sure how much intercourse the Elves and Arnor had, but we know there was SOME--and after the fall of Arthedain, the Rangers continue it (and it's possible this was an increase from before). Rivendell, Eregion, and Lindon all directly border Arnor and Gildor's company is proof of Elves tromping around in the heart of Arnor.

Gondor, on the other hand, was never much populated in Calenardhon, its closest land bordering Lórien or Mirkwood, and there is a gap even there. It DID have Elves still using the havens of Dol Amroth at least until its titular king sailed from there, but all these Elves--Mirkwood, Lórien, and Amroth--are Silvan Elves, while the Elves of Eriador were chiefly a Beleriandic mix of Noldor/Sindar. As much as we talk about the superstitions of Men regarding the Elves, there does seem to be a bit of a reverse case amongst the Elves: if the Dúnedain are the Men who lean closest to the Elves, the Noldor/Sindar equally lean closer to involvement with Men than the Silvan Elves, whose attitude is to ignore them more completely.
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Old 07-09-2020, 09:59 AM   #4
William Cloud Hicklin
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Rivendell, Eregion, and Lindon all directly border Arnor
Eregion was long, long gone by the time Arnor was founded. Destroyed ca. SA 1600.
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Old 07-09-2020, 05:09 PM   #5
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Eregion was long, long gone by the time Arnor was founded. Destroyed ca. SA 1600.
Okay, fair enough in terms of Eregion having a direct impact on Arnor--there obviously wasn't time travelling commerce between the two. But even desolate, Hollin *is* one of the countries that directly bordered Arnor, and it's not as if anyone else lived there in the 3rd Age to displace the Elvish associations of the region (as could be argued with the Silvan colony on the Bay of Belfalas)--and though Eregion by itself proves pretty much nothing, it is a bit of extra weight in the bucket of the argument I was making: Eriador was Elf country (and Elves who would interact with humans) in a ways the lands about the White Mountains were not.
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