Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXVI: Spies in Cirith Ungol Planning Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First of all - I LOVE. THE. SETTING. Amazing, Rikae.

And secondly, love the rules. Especially all the DT shenaningans. I hope you are aware of the only downside that is you're setting yourself up for a logistical - or rather, reading - nightmare when you'll have to read through Dead Thread and double-check which vote is an Orc vote, a Spy vote, and a vote for a Ghost (I presume, anyway, that the votes would be differentiated for easier orientation by for example one saying ++Legate for Ghost or somesuch).

Originally Posted by Rikae

*I'm undecided whether the number of posts from a ghost should be limited or not. What do you think?

I am not sure on this either. My first reaction was to say "limit it to something like 5", but then again, if the purpose is to have fun, it might exactly limit some players who would just enjoy posting lots of one-liner Tolkien quotes and spam people. I don't think that option should be taken away from anyone. Besides, it would not stand to the argument that passed when we debated this on the other thread, that someone might post as much content within half-a-page-long post as another might in ten short posts.

Btw, and is the Ghost allowed to quote? That is getting close to posting specific answers. (Btw, I also think the Ghost should be banned from posting sentences like "No, said Denethor" that might allow for nearly-direct communication.) On the other hand, if for example there is issue X being debated at some time of the Day when the Ghost is not present, and they would later wish to address that issue, the quotes might help... but then again, I guess that's where the creativity can come into play, and the Ghost may want to figure out a way to quote something that would signify what issue they are talking about.

[Galadriel55]

The problem I can foresee with the Ghost being allowed to quote is then people can get around the Don't Give Instructions rule by saying "I wish I knew X", or somesuch, and the Ghost would be able to give pretty direct replies. I think it's more fun if the Ghost has to make it clear what he is referring to if he wants to reply.

Is there a limit to how manh sentences the Ghost can put in one post? Can he string together sentences from different parts of the text in the same post? Also, I know I am seriously overthinking, but the alternative is overthinking during the game: can the Ghost use emojis? Because those can change how a sentence is read.


ETA: maybe for differentiating purposes spy votes on the DT can have %% instead of ++, or something.

[Huinesoron]

Still mulling over whether to sign up, but a quoting ghost can easily answer direct questions:

Originally Posted by FotR: The Great River

'Yes.' said Legolas.

Originally Posted by FotR: A Long-Expected Party

‘Well yes - and no.

Originally Posted by FotR: The Shadow of the Past

‘No.

Not a problem if that's an intended part of the system, of course!

I think this looks really fun; just not sure if I've got the brain for it right now.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Not a problem if that's an intended part of the system, of course!

What if the Ghost has a minimum number of words they need to include in their Tolkien quote? And if it's a part of a speech, maybe these words have to all be said (as opposed to, "'No,' said Sam, scratching his head" or something.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And secondly, love the rules. Especially all the DT shenaningans. I hope you are aware of the only downside that is you're setting yourself up for a logistical - or rather, reading - nightmare when you'll have to read through Dead Thread and double-check which vote is an Orc vote, a Spy vote, and a vote for a Ghost (I presume, anyway, that the votes would be differentiated for easier orientation by for example one saying ++Legate for Ghost or somesuch).

Ghost votes will be at Night on the dead thread & regular votes during the day, so I don't think it'll be too bad (and spy votes will be 1-3 votes at most).

Originally Posted by Legate

Btw, and is the Ghost allowed to quote? That is getting close to posting specific answers. (Btw, I also think the Ghost should be banned from posting sentences like "No, said Denethor" that might allow for nearly-direct communication.) On the other hand, if for example there is issue X being debated at some time of the Day when the Ghost is not present, and they would later wish to address that issue, the quotes might help... but then again, I guess that's where the creativity can come into play, and the Ghost may want to figure out a way to quote something that would signify what issue they are talking about.

Originally Posted by Hui

a quoting ghost can easily answer direct questions:

Originally Posted by G55

The problem I can foresee with the Ghost being allowed to quote is then people can get around the Don't Give Instructions rule by saying "I wish I knew X", or somesuch, and the Ghost would be able to give pretty direct replies. I think it's more fun if the Ghost has to make it clear what he is referring to if he wants to reply.

Is there a limit to how manh sentences the Ghost can put in one post? Can he string together sentences from different parts of the text in the same post? Also, I know I am seriously overthinking, but the alternative is overthinking during the game: can the Ghost use emojis? Because those can change how a sentence is read.

Yeah, for these reasons I was thinking ghost posts could be only the Tolkien quote - no quotes from other players, no emojis, probably 1 sentence per post. That way if they want to respond to something directly, they have to find a sentence that indicates what, or post immediately after.

And since the game is probably leaning toward the orc villagers as is, what do you think about a three post maximum for a ghost, and 3 word minimum for a sentence? Too complicated? Or maybe four or five word minimum, no repeating sentences? Or the "first sentences of chapters only" rule that was discussed earlier? If the ghost got into the spirit of the thing, of course (no pun intended) we wouldn't need so many rules but we also need to "phantom proof". Hmm.

Legate, are you signing up?

Edit: rules updated

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ghost votes will be at Night on the dead thread & regular votes during the day, so I don't think it'll be too bad (and spy votes will be 1-3 votes at most).

Ah I see! Good, that clarifies things then.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yeah, for these reasons I was thinking ghost posts could be only the Tolkien quote - no quotes from other players, no emojis, probably 1 sentence per post. That way if they want to respond to something directly, they have to find a sentence that indicates what, or post immediately after.

Isn't that too limiting? I thought that allowing the Ghost to post a longer quote (for instance a paragraph) wouldn't really hurt in any way (quite the contrary - the more text, the less clear the subject is, but the Ghost could get more creative).

Originally Posted by Rikae

And since the game is probably leaning toward the orc villagers as is, what do you think about a three post maximum for a ghost, and 3 word minimum for a sentence? Too complicated? Or maybe four or five word minimum, no repeating sentences? Or the "first sentences of chapters only" rule that was discussed earlier? If the ghost got into the spirit of the thing, of course (no pun intended) we wouldn't need so many rules but we also need to "phantom proof". Hmm.

Legate, are you signing up?

Yes, I am! At least if there's reason to assume that this will finish before second half of August (when I'll be away).

I wouldn't worry that dramatically about "phantom proofing". We simply should all go into this with presuming that we won't abuse the rules, and play with that sort of intention ourselves.

As for the Ghost and limits otherwise - I think there could be something like the minimum limit you suggested. You could also easily make a rule that disallows the Ghost to use the words "yes" and "no" etc.

But the main burden simply should be on the players, assuming that they would play "fair".

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Isn't that too limiting? I thought that allowing the Ghost to post a longer quote (for instance a paragraph) wouldn't really hurt in any way (quite the contrary - the more text, the less clear the subject is, but the Ghost could get more creative).

Good point. Quoting an entire paragraph would be especially fun for the village to interpret (and baddies to misinterpret). I'd like to have that possibility there.

What I want to avoid is taking a bunch of little snippets ("yes", "no", "Boromir" "is" "naughty" or whatever), either within a post or in a bunch of consecutive posts. So perhaps: long Tolkien quotes are permitted, but they still must be a single quote?

Yes, I am! At least if there's reason to assume that this will finish before second half of August (when I'll be away).

Yay! I think it should, unless signups are really slow.

[Macalaure]

*officially signs up, too*

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And since the game is probably leaning toward the orc villagers as is, what do you think about a three post maximum for a ghost, and 3 word minimum for a sentence? Too complicated? Or maybe four or five word minimum, no repeating sentences? Or the "first sentences of chapters only" rule that was discussed earlier? If the ghost got into the spirit of the thing, of course (no pun intended) we wouldn't need so many rules but we also need to "phantom proof". Hmm.

I would argue against the 3 post maximum rule, because that doesn't give the Ghost a chance to actually interact with the Living. I just imagine them having to watch the game development silently for entire Day, sitting on their post count, waiting for the moment when they need to use that post to redirect conversation. I think that if there will be a post limit at all, it should be more liberal.

I think 4-5 words minimum is a good cut off.

First sentences... or, how about first sentences of paragraphs? That opens the field a bit more, gets you digging through more text, is less predictable, but is less flexible than using any sentence at all. I'm not sure which I like better - having the "first sentence" rule or not having it.