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#1 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,957
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Just noticed this from earlier toDay (emphasis mine):
Quote:
![]() With that in mind, I took a look at this: Quote:
So Boro's comment, which reductively summarises Legate's "net" as catching just me and Lommy, doesn't just ignore his comments on Boro - it strongly implies that they didn't exist, and looks very much like a wolfish attempt to memory-hole the suspicion. The fact that this has now led into a self-titled Legate-hS "conspiracy theory" - didn't Pitch have one of those yesterDay? - does nothing to take away from that impression. (And yes, "if I were to believe in conspiracy theories" is another wonderful way for a wolf!Boro to put an idea out there without quite claiming to believe it... deniability, always deniability.) hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#2 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,957
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So far today I suspect Pitch and Boro, plus Sally on procedural grounds (ie, if Form's death was an attempt to get the Seer then Sally is a wolf). It occurs to me that Pitch's late vote was a good way to let Greenie - who could have been a Seer who saw wolf!Pitch - get lynched while making Pitch look like he was trying to stop it.
I semi-clear Morsul on similar procedural grounds - if Sally isn't a wolf, then there's at least two people wolf!Morsul could see as potential Seers. I was going to look at the other people who've posted today, but only have time for one. Lottie makes some solid points in their early Day 2 discussion with Morsul. Sally sees this as more aggressive than normal, while Boro (#128) "agrees with Sally", but then describes it as "the Lottie I'm most familiar with". I think that inconsistency (ie, is it too aggressive, or normally aggressive?) says more about Boro than it does about Lottie, so I'm not suspicious of Lottie at this time. Still need to look at Lommy and Legate, and I hope we hear more from Kath and Soriman soon! hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#3 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I'm at work, so more like a quick chime in. I should however have considerably more time couple of hours before DL.
Some generic thoughts: As far as toDay goes, thus far, I am thinking Morsul comes across as genuinely trying to unravel things. Sally seems to have lots of her thoughts based on "gut feeling", which is something one can't really verify, even though she is a lot more specific in regards to Morsul and Lottie. So that is at least some data - I would however prefer to see more. Her first post toDay came across as genuine, the second one was more all over the place. Hui is very much active again, I find at least that he is giving things a thought. That said, his speculation about the Ghost and Seer in #127 sounds almost like he's given it too much of a thought, perhaps overNight (and then saying "he just remembered it"). But it may just be a byproduct of thinking things from very many angles, which I would understand. Lommy's first post toDay seemed rather contentless, although that may be attributed to lack of time. The second one was however pretty analytical, to the point of some complicated constructions of Wolf packs; but she brings up good points about Sally and Lottie. As for Lottie herself, I can't really make any clear image of her myself, the radar is blurry (and has remained so for a while). She is contributing and seems to bring up constructive points, but with what intent I can't decipher. I am becoming increasingly unclear, if not suspicious about what Boro is up to, because while yesterDay I overall leaned towards trusting what he was doing, toDay I am increasingly dubious about what his role in everything is. It may be influenced partly by his throwaway vote yesterDay and lastly the conspiracy theory post - I cannot tell whether that is supposed to be a mental exercise or whether he is subtly trying to cast suspicion around. Besides, speaking of that: Quote:
Anyway, typing this took a while as I was called off in the middle a few times - I am going to leave it at this now because I may end up being interrupted for an unknown amount of time any moment again, but as I said, I'll be around later after my work ends. I'd especially like to see Souriman and others who haven't appeared or posted much yet. The "lurkers" should not indeed be just left lurking (even though I think essentially everyone has been posting now). EDIT: x-ed with Lommy and both Hueys
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#4 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Okay, just as a remark, I see Hui has arrived to similar conclusions and spotting similar inconsistencies regarding Boro. That at least makes me think of genuine thinking on his part. Also Lommy's post looks fairly genuine, the kind of analysis a Wolf would not maybe even bother with in the first place.
Now off.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#5 | |
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#6 | |||||
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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I’ll be around for about 45 minutes on lunch break. I might be forced to vote at the end since it is quite busy. I hate voting early.
Lottie and Sally are my top choices Lottie for her vote and behavior as outlined before. Sally for decided no vote along with Form’s night kill. Huin is next but a far third mostly based on Lottie’s vote which is out of their control so not solid. I feel like we’d get more information from a LottieWolf than a SallyWolf
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Morsul the Resurrected |
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#8 |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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If there was a LottieWolf, maybe. I am not a wolf. You will get no information from lynching me, and the people who are spending the whole Day barking up this tree are giving the wolves perfect cover in which to operate. Please, just look at one (1) other person toDay. The village doesn’t benefit from wasting the whole day suspecting the same (innocent, believe it or not) person.
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
Last edited by Loslote; 04-23-2021 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Xed with Kath |
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#9 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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Quote:
Sally and Huin are on my radar. Legate is on others pitch features in others.
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Morsul the Resurrected |
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#10 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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Ok, this will probably bite me if it’s wrong, I feel Lottie is a highly frustrated Ordo based on her last post. And I’ve been there. And since I can’t guarantee I’ll be back before DL
++Sally Not only is she my second in line suspect if she is a wolf and I help her bandwagon an Ordo that won’t do anyone any good. Lottie I really hope your an Ordo. Otherwise you get an Oscar Xed Boro
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Morsul the Resurrected Last edited by Morsul the Dark; 04-23-2021 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Grammar confusion |
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#11 | |
Everlasting Whiteness
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Day 2 then:
Boro Quote:
Huinesoron - spent some time questioning Pitch as they didn't feel that Pitch's previous statements on Greenie then matched his later comments. I can sort of see what they mean given the quotes they've used. Notes that Boro has cheerfully disregarded Legate's additional focus on Pitch and Boro when he discussed Legate's 'narrow' analysis of the voting. That is a good point. Suspects Pitch for his vote (I disagree) and sally due to Form's death (I agree). Legate - focused on the voting and notes that Lommy and Hui were the 'pushers' of the two wagons, Pitch's vote was throwaway (I disagree as mentioned elsewhere) and Boro who avoided the wagons. Then further develops suspicion of Boro for misrepresenting his voting analysis (as pointed out also by Hui). Lommy - proposes a Lottie/sally/Hui pack because she feels Lottie rather let sally off the hook and then the way she spoke about Hui in Day 1. I think the attitude toward sally more comes from RL rather than in-game, so I'm not sure I agree with this. Analyses Form and ends up with suspicion of sally. Loslote - similar sally question post. Explains her vote for Greenie - seems to make sense to me. Greenie and Hui were garnering the most suspicion and possible votes at the time. She feels that Morsul's list post seems to have unfounded suspicions of some people, while seeming to give others an unexplained pass. I do agree that the decisions aren't clearly explained, and I think that's what led to a lot of the debate yesterDay about Morsul as it seemed as though they were flipping between finding particularly Hui innocent one moment and guilty the next without it being very clear why. Morsul - debating the sally question in much the same way as I did. I'm still of the Occam's razor school of thought on that one. Wondering why Lottie chose to vote between Greenie/Hui rather than going with her prior suspicions, and suggests it was for self preservation. I'm not quite following the logic there? I don't think anyone else had suggested they'd vote Lottie at the time. List post is interesting in that almost each person they comment on gets the treatment of suspicious but not a wolf which doesn't really follow. Not quite sure what they're saying about Lommy's vote in post #131? Pitch - questions Lottie's vote and suggests she was trying to save Hui. I'm not quite sure where he was going within the post (#142) as apart from himself going from not-vote to possible-vote, I thought Lottie's earlier explanation for her vote was fairly clear. Sally - if Lottie is going to go after Morsul for wishy-washy lists, then I'll expect the same intensity towards sally's in post #121. Beyond saying Boro and Pitch seem innocent, everyone else gets the 'could be ... but maybe' treatment. Thinks Pitch makes good points about Lottie and would vote for her. She'd earlier mentioned that Lottie was quite aggressive, maybe more so than she'd be as an ordo, so this is consistent at least. Soriman - have they posted? If so, I didn't note anything as I read through.
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“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” Last edited by Kath; 04-23-2021 at 02:17 PM. Reason: X'd from #155 |
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#12 | |||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Quote:
I'm just going through Formy's posts and loved this so much I had to rep him for it: Quote:
Anyway. Reason I went through Form's posts is this: Quote:
So I think this is much more likely to be a no-trace kill (the second-best thing if you can't kill the Seer, and if you can use it to frame an innocent, so much the better.) But then again, this also means there was nobody else the wolves thought more likely to be the Seer (as I don't remember who and am too lazy to check said before me). This could speak for Hui's innocence (as I think Morsul noted). But if the wolves (or most of them) felt safe yesterDay we should look at those who didn't get any votes: Boro Kath Legate Lommy Soriman Which is half the remaining village, and I think it's highly likely there's at least one wolf among them.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI Last edited by Pitchwife; 04-23-2021 at 02:04 PM. Reason: x-ed with everything after Morsul #154 |
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#13 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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I'm definitely not posting this while on a conference call.
![]() I don't want to vote super early, but the more Lottie talks, the more suspicious I'm finding her. Not that she doesn't make sense, but she seems more....touchy, though of course not in a mean way, just a suspicious way. I'll be back over a break, at which point I'll have to vote. I'm working late tonight to make up for being gone next week, so I won't be able to be on again until after deadline. Edit: x'd with Pop
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#14 |
The Werewolf's Companion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Moon
Posts: 3,021
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Well, yes. Several people have said nothing all Day except that I seem suspicious. I am getting tired of that - look at other options! My vote stands out because it was the deciding one. Well, if Pitch had voted before me and Huin had turned out to be innocent, maybe my vote would have been the throwaway vote and his would have been the one that saved Greenie and you all would think Pitch and Greenie were packmates. That's just the position we were both in at the end of yesterDay, because people didn't vote, and I strongly suspect two innocents were the ones most likely to go home. I made a decision. I didn't especially suspect Greenie, but I chose to keep Huin, and now you and Morsul are all but refusing to look at anyone else because of it. It is frustrating, and I am a bit touchy at this point. I'm not a wolf, and I really, really wish you guys would spend more time looking for wolves than just reiterating that you suspect me. I get it, I do, but please don't just let the wolves skate by completely unnoticed because you can't stop talking about me!
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I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. Double Fenris
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#15 | |
Laconic Loreman
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I'm wary if I continue then I'll just be tunnel visioned on Legate and thus my day is stuck on 1 person. If I had to vote right this moment it would be for Legate, and I would definitely love to hear what other people think about this? (Morsul? Sally? If you're able to come back at some point in the day...Lottie? Pitch? Kath? Soriman - where are you?)
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Fenris Penguin
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#16 | ||||
Laconic Loreman
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Alright, back for the rest of the day. I haven't read any posts after my last one #139 yet, I wanted to expand more on my suspicions about Legate's vote analysis post:
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Morsul > Huey Lommy > Huey (2) Legate > Greenie Huey > Greenie (2) Lottie > Greenie (3) Pitch > Huey (3) It's also true that you considered Morsul being the first to vote for Huey, but to me, you very clearly wanted to put the attention to those who cast the 2nd votes (Huey and Lommy) Quote:
And my argument is, a single vote a bandwagon does not make, but a single vote has the same potential to start a bandwagon. What I mean is with Lottie's vote yesterday: Quote:
If you want to call my vote a throwaway, I can see that being the case for people who don't know my alignment. I still would beg to disagree. It was Lottie's and Pitch's vote that made mine a "throwaway." I was pretty clear throughout the day I was more worried about Lottie and voted that way. Lottie herself admitted there was the possibility that she could be bandwagon lynched. So, in my opinion, to call my vote a "throwaway" is inaccurate, it's only a throwaway because Lottie's, Pitch's votes, plus sally's and Soriman not voting made it a throwaway. Now I did make a mistake in not recognizing Legate's comments on Pitch's vote: Quote:
It may very well be a language barrier thing, but if anything Lottie's vote is the sinister one and Pitch's is the "safe throwaway." What I mean is this: I don't know Pitch's alignment and I don't know Huey's alignment, we all know Greenie is innocent. If Pitch is a wolf in this scenario, he would know even casting a 3rd vote for Huey the innocent-Greenie would still be lynched, thus it's safe and "keeps his record clean." That is the case, if I go with the assumption Pitch is a wolf. The problem with just going by that assumption is I don't know Pitch's alignment, and I don't know Huey's alignment. I do now know Greenie's alignment, therefor of the voters who brought Greenie and Huey to 3, the more suspicious vote is Lottie's being the vote that lynched a known innocent. I'd be even wary of classifying Lottie's vote as "sinister" because that would suggest I know Lottie's a wolf and thus was motivated to get Greenie lynched. But currently as far as I know, Pitch is an unknown alignment, and Huey is an unknown alignment, so I don't know how his vote for someone's alignment I do not know should be classified as evil. Ok, will read and catch up on the posts I missed.
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Fenris Penguin
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#17 | |
Everlasting Whiteness
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I haven't made it to toDay yet as I forgot how much I missed between voting and deadline yesterDay! Standing out to me from that is Hui.
As I read, it struck me that a lot of Hui's suspicion of Greenie was based on her seemingly taking other people suspicions and reiterating them. But in terms of Hui's suspicion of Greenie, they first agree with Legate that Greenie's comment about 'Boro launching the Day 1s are pointless debate' was overstating it and then use Legate's reasons against Greenie again to further suspect Greenie. So ... pot/kettle? Then we get: Quote:
Actually all the way through yesterDay Hui seems to be sort of following Legate's lead. Even in post #70 Legate suggests Greenie as a vote and Hui then suggests that would be a vote they'd be comfortable with. I don't know that I'm saying there's a Legate/Hui wolf-pack here, but it struck me as odd.
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“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” |
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