TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Morsul the Dark]

++Pitch

Because why not tempt fate.

[Pitchwife]

And here I was hoping Morsul was the Seer and had dreamed me. *sigh*



So the dead are fallible after all. Not only fallible but plain wrong. Hui, you've had your revenge for my hand in your death, I don't begrudge you that. But the dead are wrong.


Have to be off to work now. Do what you must, but I'm innocent.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by TTT: The Black Gate is Closed

This was no assault upon the Dark Lord by the men of Gondor, risen like avenging ghosts from the graves of valour long passed away.

Originally Posted by RotK: The Last Debate

He is watching. He sees much and hears much.

Ghost

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I must say that regardless of Kath's death, it is very reassuring to see Hui here with more concrete info. And Hui, I really like that you are trying to confirm and be clear about things - please stick with that. If Soriman is innocent (I assume this is deduced based on the Dead info revelations), that helps a lot, as in these numbers it's a big part of the equation. And the Pitch thing is also presumably deduced in a similar manner, but it is not as definite.

Which however once again makes me unhappy about Morsul jumping to vote immediately, and without even having others appear. Though given the circumstances (and especially sally's guilt), I find it less likely that you'd be a Wolf. YesterDay it would have been a bold move, but it would have to be a very well-thought conspiracy to bus sally first and now use the same system toDay, on top of that using something the Ghost said. But that still does not mean it cannot be wrong.

So, I absolutely want to hear something from everybody, also because now that is the info that will be crucial in the future Days (if we get there). Especially as the numbers go down.

I'll try to quickly read through Kath, even though given that she had not revealed, I expect she likely didn't dream much of any Wolves. Presume to be back in a bit.

EDIT: x-ed with The Ghost

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ha, and I see the Ghost is back! Hui, was this just saying "I am here", or is the other part with the Dark Lord referring to something?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I now see that it is probably answering to Pitch about the revenge.

Hui, since you are here, anything else you may want to say that you lot have uncovered?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by FotR: Flight to the Ford

He heard and saw no more.

Ghost

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A pity, Hui.

But anyways, here's a look at Kath if there's anything useful that could point to her dreams. The game has gotten to the stage that reading anything means horrible walls of text (and that saying Kath did not even post that much compared to some others).

Her lists do not seem to show anything very conclusive. Especially on Day 1 I really can't read anything that would indicate her first dream, but maybe she also did not feel like posting anything that could be easily spotted by the Wolves yet, since one dream is very little. I only noticed that in her list she says this:

Originally Posted by Kath

Loslote - will have to see more.

Using the word "see" could mean she was about to dream Lottie. (Even though I do not know why she would announce it in advance. Unless it was some clever way to sorta say that and she dreamed her already, but just did not have in-game data that allowed her to say it without being obvious.)

At the same time, the way she was about sally already on Day 2 means she might have dreamed her, too. This is quite a strong statement:

Originally Posted by Kath

My current suspicions definitely start with sallybecause of the Night kill and I'm pretty sure that's where my vote is going toDay.

And she voted her on Day 2 already.

But in the same post, she also talks about Lottie:

Originally Posted by Kath

Lottie's been mentioned a lot toDay. I'm getting more frustrated ordo than forcing-a-focus wolf and I think she explained her vote clearly enough, so she wouldn't be on my concerns list at the moment.

In any case I'd hazard a guess she dreamed of at least one of sally or Lottie then, which means one dream that we can't get anything out of anymore. I am kind of overall wondering if maybe if more of Kath's dreams were for somebody who subsequently died, because that would also explain why she did not come out, or did not leave any strong visible hints, because she simply did not have much to say.

I did not really find anything clear on Day 3. She is not in any notable way decisive on anybody besides sally.

Originally Posted by Kath

With Boro's behaviour yesterDay, I read it as his oft-used strategy of: "Look at me, look at me! No don't look at them, I'M the Gifted one! No really - pay attention to meeee!" Ok yes maybe I'm oversimplifying but I read post #191 and just had to smile, and it also made me feel that he's innocent. The wolves would want to draw out Gifteds, not distract from them, so I'm feeling ok about Boro at the moment.

That may mean either literally just what she says, or it may be that she dreamed him and found him innocent. But it is very generic. It is however the only thing, at least as far as I can see, that indicates something clearer on Day 3. I would not base much on that, but something to consider at least until we can hear from the Ghosts some confirmations about Kath's dreams (which would hopefully come toMorrow).

Then Kath did the huge analysis of me, Lommy and Pitch. It's a horrible novel, which I assume she would not have done that had she dreamed of any of us. In any case, she ends up basically open-ended on everyone, as in, she forms some opinions and forms a model of a pack, but if she had actually dreamed anybody's role, I would expect a stronger statement. For reference, this is the last paragraph:

Originally Posted by Kath

Hmmm - I don't know. I think I'm being drawn into seeing a sally/Lommy/Pitch pack. sally I think is a wolf regardless of the other two, and Lommy/Pitch seemed to coincide a fair bit when I was reading through. I think that I started off with a feeling that Lommy was suspicious though (perhaps because I think sally is a wolf, and Lommy seems to be quite diligently trying to avoid making a decision there) so that may have coloured my opinions. With that said, Pitch has a voting record that is both squeaky clean and damning at the same time, and Lommy brought Hui in as a third candidate on Day 2. But then Legate really had the strongest effect on the Hui lynch there and did cross post with Lommy.

I don't know. But sally/Lommy/Pitch is where I'm at currently.

Obviously had she dreamed Lommy or Pitch and they were innocent, she wouldn't have written them into sally's pack, and had she dreamed them and they were Wolves, she would have likely said something clearer about them. Similarly, had she dreamed me and found me innocent, I would think she would have said something clearer, too, besides leaving me out of the final pack list. It is theoretically possible, but then I would have expected some extra bit of supportive info somewhere else.

So all in all I am rather convinced that she dreamed sally and/or Lottie at some point. Otherwise, just by way of negation, I would say she also did not dream Lommy or Pitch or myself. And then everything is possible.

Well that was not particularly productive (even though negative information is also information). But something. I am going to see if I have time (and brain capacity) to look into something else before I leave to work.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So the dead are fallible after all. Not only fallible but plain wrong. Hui, you've had your revenge for my hand in your death, I don't begrudge you that. But the dead are wrong.

Yes the message about you being a suspicious wolf is from what the dead believe. That much is clear, thanks to Huey having a quote from "Gorlim." It is not one of the tidbit pieces of information that G55 ("Iluvatar") gives them.

Originally Posted by Pitch

And whatever piece of info was revealed to them last Night was cherrypicked by sallywolf. How hard can it have been to confirm the bias?

Yes it was cherry-picked by sally, but that information is still a small something to help us. It looks like the information she picked was revealing Soriman's innocent, as again Huey quoted "Iluvatar" to deliver that message.

So far the ghosts have been quite clear in what messages they want to send. Yesterday it was at least one of Morsul, sally, or Pitch was a wolf. They knew not whether there was more than one, only that there was at least one.

Today Huey has given us 2 messages.

1. Soriman is innocent (the piece of information from Iluvatar)
2. The dead ("Gorlim") think Pitch is a wolf, but they know not for certain.

I'm pretty sure they base this suspicion on the same thing I'm thinking...

Originally Posted by Pitch

If you think I co-engineered sally's reveal, think again. She was hinting pretty strong, and as an ordo I can't in good conscience ignore a Seer hint. The only way I would know she was lying - not believe, Boro, but know, a word you're playing much too fast-and-loose with! - would have been if I were
- either the real Seer
- or her packmate.
If she'd been for real, she might have saved the Day. I had to find out.

But was she hinting at faking a seer reveal or were you setting it up for her to try it? I've known sally a long time and you're right that can cloud one's judgement about them. But I do know if she was the seer, she would have come out from the start yesterday still ready to go down fighting for us and for herself. She wouldn't have began with a first post trying to guilt trip us into thinking we were calling her foolish for killing Form, and then done the whole charade trying to confuse us and make us not believe the information from the dead that came from something they learned from G55.

I have more time today, which I am thankful for, because now that it appears Huey has no more messages to be given to us today. It's not going to benefit just to spend all day on Pitch.

I think there is 1 wolf between Lommy or Legate. And hopefully if I make the right choices I can be free from this world to join my dead kin.

Edit: crossed with Lommy and Morsul.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Lommy in 214

I don't know. Too late for my brain. I would really like to know what Boro is scheming, but hopefully knowing Huin's role will help.

This is another thing I don't get. So, this was the Day 2 vote, so you say you want to know something I'm scheming (which looks to me like you're trying to make something I do sound suspicious) but conclude "hopefully knowing Huey's role will help."

I'm not sure if this is breaking news to anyone, but I'm always up to something. Being up to something doesn't mean it's an evil something, and to call it "scheming" applies that it is evil. That's not really what bothers me though, because like I said it's not breaking news I try to lay out bait and traps. What bothers me is Lommy is framing myself negatively (I'm "scheming"), but instead of actually voting for me, she voted for Huey to "hopefully" find something out about me.

*ping*

Originally Posted by Lommy in 341

I have no idea what to think about Kath saying that suggesting her and Morsul are packmates is a "fair point". Really?

But that's not what Kath said. #322

Pitch said that Kath had not yet said something about Morsul. Her "fair point" is that she had not said anything yet about Morsul, and then proceeds to do a Morsul-analysis.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm at work, but trying to follow the thread...

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

"We know not for certain," said Elrond, so Kath hasn't dreamed me, it's as simple as that. They're guessing.

To be precise, I don't think Kath has had the chance to tell anybody anything. It is the conclusion of the Dead based at most partly on the info they had and their own conclusions. But if I am right, she did not dream you - or she might have just this Night, but that would not have been transmitted on before Hui left.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

If you think I co-engineered sally's reveal, think again. She was hinting pretty strong, and as an ordo I can't in good conscience ignore a Seer hint. The only way I would know she was lying - not believe, Boro, but know, a word you're playing much too fast-and-loose with! - would have been if I were
- either the real Seer
- or her packmate.
If she'd been for real, she might have saved the Day. I had to find out.

This, however, is a completely fair point.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Xed Lommy there’s a reason I tried getting night killed A to save the seer and B I’m rubbish in end game voted my “Among Us” loss record speaks for itself

You tried getting night killed? When?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm pretty sure they base this suspicion on the same thing I'm thinking...

That is cryptic. If you are thinking something, is it not the time to say it? Especially at this point, the village should be upfront. And information has more value than ever.

I am at work and will be for several hours, I would like to at least look at Lommy, Pitch, Boro and Morsul. Given what I said about the walls of text, I will probably have to somehow downgrade this ambition. I started to look at Day 1 but did not have the chance to get very far. I will see how I manage.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That is cryptic. If you are thinking something, is it not the time to say it? Especially at this point, the village should be upfront. And information has more value than ever.

Uhh I did say it. Read the rest of the post. Where I respond to Pitch saying he didn't engineer it for sally to do a fake reveal.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Uhh I did say it. Read the rest of the post. Where I respond to Pitch saying he didn't engineer it for sally to do a fake reveal.

Okay, I see. I somehow read it that you were just responding to him and starting something new, especially since you were talking about something the Dead supposedly knew before but answering in present.

But okay. As I said I'm posting in-between work so my reading comprehension may suffer.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, I see. I somehow read it that you were just responding to him and starting something new, especially since you were talking about something the Dead supposedly knew before but answering in present.

But okay. As I said I'm posting in-between work so my reading comprehension may suffer.

Ahh I see how it could look like that with the "..." almost as if I was trailing off. So, anyway, yes I think Pitch is suspected by the dead because that looked like something wolves might have cooked up to draw out the seer. Even if Kath never had to technically reveal, unfortunately it made her come out more forcefully to secure sally's lynch.

I agree with your look there into Kath's dreams. It would appear Lottie and sally were 2 of them, as for the third and for her dream last night, I'm not sure we'll know for certain until tomorrow. But we'll have to get to tomorrow first.

And with the dead voting today, they'll know Kath's dreams. Something to consider about who they vote for today.

What are your thoughts on Lommy?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

You tried getting night killed? When?

Post 399 was supposed to be a “LOOK AT ME IM THE SEER” type of post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Post 399 was supposed to be a “LOOK AT ME IM THE SEER” type of post.

Fair enough...

[Thinlómien]

I don't understand Hui's posting. Unless it is to say that the dead think Soriman is innocent and Pitch is guilty? That's what I'm getting. But given that Kath joined the dead when Hui departed, these cannot be seer dreams. Update: Hui seems to have confirmed they know about Soriman and are guessing about Pitch. I would like to know how they're sure they know, but I guess I'll just have to take a leap of faith.

I'm seeing a Morsul-Boro alliance out in the open, and I'm pretty sure that's how the two of them would play it if they were the remaining wolves: appear decisively in the start of the Day when the Europeans are sleeping, direct the discussion where they want (ie towards the most guilty looking other player, ie Pitch), and not suspect each other. I'm mildly alarmed.

Pitch doesn't look too good, but I can kind of sympathise with what he said about his reaction to Sally yesterDay, and my own was not dissimilar - an innocent with no better knowledge would naturally fliflop.

I'm still intending to look at Kath myself because I don't trust anyone else to do it without twisting things, but continuing off Legate's post #430, I agree Kath likely dreamed of Sally, and I would hesitate to say she dreamed of wolf-Pitch or wolf-Legate, or she'd have come out yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Boro

This is another thing I don't get. So, this was the Day 2 vote, so you say you want to know something I'm scheming (which looks to me like you're trying to make something I do sound suspicious) but conclude "hopefully knowing Huey's role will help."

I'm not sure if this is breaking news to anyone, but I'm always up to something. Being up to something doesn't mean it's an evil something, and to call it "scheming" applies that it is evil. That's not really what bothers me though, because like I said it's not breaking news I try to lay out bait and traps. What bothers me is Lommy is framing myself negatively (I'm "scheming"), but instead of actually voting for me, she voted for Huey to "hopefully" find something out about me.

If you're innocent, you're "having a plan", if you're guilty, you're "scheming"? Ok, joking aside, I did and do think you're making some weird maneuvers which I haven't been able to follow. Naturally, that makes me worry if they're good or evil. Here the "scheming" you were doing was whatever was the point of pursuing Legate for the first half of the Day, then dropping it and going for Huin instead. I don't think it was wrong of me to think of that as nefarious. In fact, I still think it entirely possible that you and Legate are the remaining wolves (in which case, toDay has not started very well). And yeah, I still don't know what the back-and-forth between you, Huin and Legate was about. It's hard to believe you'd all be innocent. I'm planning to look at that toDay. And as for why I voted for Huin and not you - I thought you might be "scheming" but it was not my main line of suspicion. In fact, if you look back, I thought the order of suspiciousness in your trio was Huin > Legate > you (which was likely stupid of me, given even the statistic likelihood of one of you two others being a wolf).

Originally Posted by Boro

But that's not what Kath said. #322

Pitch said that Kath had not yet said something about Morsul. Her "fair point" is that she had not said anything yet about Morsul, and then proceeds to do a Morsul-analysis.

No, I thought Kath was referring to the first part of the thing she quoted (Pitch pointing out that she and Morsul are in tandem), you think she was referring to the latter part of the thing she quoted (that she hasn't said anything about Morsul). Looking at Kath's post again, I can see what you mean, and I actually agree your interpretation is more likely than mine. It makes more sense, especially now in retrospect knowing that Kath and Morsul cannot be wolvish packmates.

Also, getting weird vibes from Boro's last post which is basically just answering questions about himself no one asked and lamenting his wrong decisions (such as voting for Hui) in a way that makes him sound like a self-conscious wolf.

Okay, now off to do some rereading.

PS. Not sure what to make of the fact that Legate seems oblivious to the fact that there are still 2 wolves among us. I don't think he's suspected anyone in his several posts toDay, which is a big red flag to me. Who do you think the wolves are?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

To be precise, I don't think Kath has had the chance to tell anybody anything. It is the conclusion of the Dead based at most partly on the info they had and their own conclusions. But if I am right, she did not dream you - or she might have just this Night, but that would not have been transmitted on before Hui left.

Confirmed. Kath joined the DT the moment Hui left it - ie they did not interact on the DT.

[Thinlómien]

Anyone else having problems with the 'downs? I keep getting some "error 508: resource limit reached" when I open a new page (but not every time, it seems) This is not speeding up my analyses...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Anyone else having problems with the 'downs? I keep getting some "error 508: resource limit reached" when I open a new page (but not every time, it seems) This is not speeding up my analyses...

Yep! I got that too, a number of times. That, or the page just never loads. But now it seems to be better. ???

I hope the gods of the internet aren't gonna ruin this crucial Day!