Characters paying attention

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It doesn't work

On what in the story is this conclusion based?

[Morsul the Dark]

I’m not necessarily sure this counts. But considering how he’s usually portrayed as a sort of bumbling type character, Pippin knowing about the ring and understanding that it was to be kept secret and while not knowing the full scope was able to glean its importance stands out for me.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, Pippin is impetuous and tends to speak and act without thinking- but he is very clever. Flighty and unreliable, unlike the steady Merry, but he's a bright one, not stupid at all.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I’m not necessarily sure this counts. But considering how he’s usually portrayed as a sort of bumbling type character, Pippin knowing about the ring and understanding that it was to be kept secret and while not knowing the full scope was able to glean its importance stands out for me.

One thought about Pippin that I read elsewhere on the web and really liked:

Pippin does a Gollum impression to Grishnakh, who instantly recognizes it. Pippin has never met Gollum. Which means that when telling his adventures, Bilbo must have done a killer Gollum impersonation, and Pippin paid attention and remembered!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

On what in the story is this conclusion based?

'By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair,' said Frodo with a last effort, lifting up his sword, 'you shall have neither the Ring nor me!'

Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand. The elf-horse reared and snorted. The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore.

I don't see any indication in that paragraph or the rest of the chapter that Frodo's words had any effect. You could argue that it would have, or why would the Witch-King bother to shut him up, but I don't think it did.

I guess it's possible that standing up to silence Frodo delayed the Witch-King by a crucial second or two; if he'd been slightly faster he would have been on the shore when the flood came. But it's also possible to stand up in stirrups while the horse keeps moving, so that's not a certain point.

Do you get something different from the text? I'd quite like it to have an impact, it's a great line, so I'm open to persuasion. ^_^

hS

[littlemanpoet]

I had not reread it before I posed my question, so thank you, Huinesoron, for quoting the text. It appears that you are correct.

My thought was that if the name Elbereth does have greater power than Frodo's sword (it is not Sting and not Elven), then it would have an effect.

However, there are extentuations to consider: first, perhaps the words coming from a more powerful being such as an Elf, might have had a greater effect. But more likely, by the time they had come to the river, Frodo was at an extremity, his will having been taxed for days since Weathertop.

So perhaps the words did have an effect, but the Nazgul had too great an advantage that, by this time, Frodo was not able to overcome by using the Name.

[Morsul the Dark]

I don’t have much to back this up other than vague hypothesis based on the Nazgul’s abilities.

Maybe the strength of Elberoth isn’t the name but the hope it imbues. Nazgul obviously deal in fear and menace. To the point being being nearby you can feel them. So what happens if you counter that with hope?

Is there any solid evidence emotions can affect them in a similar way?