History of this Forum

[Mister Underhill]

Well, well, well! Are we now at the stage where we cart out our old bones, figuratively speaking, to tell these youngsters what it was really like back in the olden days? Somebody give Ken Burns a call!

Mith's expansive post -- and the sight of some old hands like Snowdog (howdy!) -- have left me feeling wistful. I can't help thinking about what a random stroke of fate it was that we all came together on this site at that time. It seems the internet was this utopian playground back then (popups and viruses notwithstanding), a place where all knowledge might eventually repose (along with Mr. T haikus), and where people with similar interests might form communities without borders, so to speak.

I share Mith's fascination with the dynamics of this site over the years. The Downs has always been, for me, the best of what the internet could be. Yet I too feel a pang when I think of the many friendships that have melted away across the years, like tears in the rain (to paraphrase another old favorite). But look at me getting sentimental, if not downright maudlin. That's life, I reckon. It's hard to hold on to the people and the times that we love for very long.

Annnnyway... I'll await Mith's sequel. I can find nothing to contradict in his account so far, though of course I have my own origin story. I joined after the old EZ-Board forums had been going for a few months and found my internet home immediately. No other online community has been as fulfilling or as enjoyable.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Hm. I remember the debate being mostly respectful. Then again, that was quite a while ago.

I'll let Mithadan tell his version, but from my point of view it was more a question of whether our little community would simply be washed away by the deluge of Orli fans and frivolous discussion topics and posts. Our book-only "Barrow-downs" theme probably saved us from being totally capsized. The addition of... well, back up a second. Here I will reverse myself and find one thing to contradict in Mith's account -- I'm pretty sure the three categories at the time of the Great Making were, in fact, "Books", "Movies", and this very sub-forum, "The Barrow-Downs", a place to discuss burning community questions such as, "How did you find the Barrow-Downs?" The addition of "Novices and Newcomers" was a measure meant to stabilize things post movie release. If I recall correctly. Which I very well might not.

Originally Posted by Ring Bearer

Btw, the colour scheme has remained unchanged for 21+ years!?

Traditionnnnnn... Tradition! The colors!

[Mithadan]

Hello Mr. Underhill, it's been a while. In fact, I think it has been years since two administrators posted within days of each other, let alone in the same sub-forum!

I'm pretty sure the three categories at the time of the Great Making were, in fact, "Books", "Movies", and this very sub-forum, "The Barrow-Downs", a place to discuss burning community questions such as, "How did you find the Barrow-Downs?" The addition of "Novices and Newcomers" was a measure meant to stabilize things post movie release.

You may be correct here. I recall that the Newcomers forum was intended to be a place where folks could introduce themselves, ask questions, and make themselves comfortable. Admins, and later the Moderators, kept an eye on the Newcomers forum for a few reasons. One was to welcome people, which was possible only when we had a meager flow of new members joining. During the Movies period (post upcoming) this quickly became impossible. We recognized that acknowledging the first post or two of a newcomer was important. A second reason was to keep an eye open for people with potential. If a newcomer made a particularly thoughtful or well-reasoned post, they might receive a personal PM welcoming them and encouraging them to post again. This practice also faded away under the crush of incoming members (unlikely as this might seem during these quieter times).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

It's fascinating to read your account of the beginnings, Mithadan! I wasn't here for the start, but joined in January 2002 after reading about the Barrow-Downs in a magazine after the release of the first movie. I was desperately seeking for someone with whom to share my thoughts on the movies and the book, and lurked for a few days before registering and jumping in to post. I remember taking my time to think up a cool user name!

I actually discovered the main site first, with its various features - the Elvish name generator was very popular back then! Then I found the link to the forum, which sealed my fate and made me a Downer for life. Later I also participated in the chat room, which was where a lot of personal friendships formed, some of them leading to real life meetings and friendships.

I don't remember when I joined the team as a moderator - maybe a year later? Of course that involved a good deal of monitoring for behaviour that was not consistent with our policies, such as chatspeak in forum posts, off-topic posting, flame wars, or language that was not family friendly. We always prided ourselves on being a place where young persons were safe and even learned something in the process - like spelling, grammar, etc.! It was a joy to see second-language members improving their English and being accepted into an international fellowship of Tolkien fans.

Oh, and remember the birthday parties we celebrated back then?! There was so much going on that you couldn't keep track of all the posts! We did virtual partying way before Corona made social distancing necessary.

The Barrow-Downs encouraged me to read those Tolkien books I had not previously come across, to attend international Tolkien conferences, and to join a Tolkien Society in the country I live in (Germany). As a result, I lectured on several topics at various moots and even published essays and contributions to secondary literature.

I can definitely say that not only Tolkien has influenced the course of my life, but also that the Downs has been instrumental in making that happen. Though I have rarely posted in recent years, I still look in to see what's happening as often as possible. The personal friendships have largely moved over to Facebook (which reminds us of birthdays almost as faithfully as Galadriel55 does on the forum!).

[Mithadan]

And then the first movie came out…

Throughout 2001, the administrators were expecting an uptick in both membership and the number of posts when Fellowship of the Ring came out. We had worked to add content and encourage thoughtful posts as well as civility and an atmosphere of collegiality. Personal attacks and scornful posts were discouraged, usually by PMs at first, followed by brief suspensions if the conduct continued. We had a solid core of posters who were truly interested in analyzing the books and discussing their ideas and theories. Again, these bulletin boards provided for many the first chance to do so.

I would guess that the average age of our members as of, say, November 1, 2001, was likely in the mid-twenties. Many were older and appreciated the Downs for the same reasons that I did. Around that time, we noticed some changes developing in the Tolkien internet realm. A number of new boards were beginning to pop up as setup of message boards became cheaper and easier. Some hosting services were offering essentially free setup if you didn’t mind the pop-ups and ads. These boards were, of course, not limited to Tolkien; they were a precursor to social media. So, competition was developing. Whether it was a conscious decision or just the way that we developed, we became the “smart” Tolkien board early on and took pride in this.

The movie previews in mid-2001 started driving curiosity. Our membership was growing relatively quickly and the need for policing similarly increased. We tried hard to be nice and friendly. But there certainly was an increase in less thoughtful posts. We started seeing very generalized questions along the lines of “what is the Lord of the Rings about?” If someone is perversely interested, I am sure that somewhere out there, there is the first question about “the blond elf” if anyone wants to look for it. But this was nothing we couldn’t handle…

FoTR came out on December 19, 2001 (it premiered in England about a week earlier). The forums changed nearly overnight. There was an incredible flood of new members. My prior post mentions a “landmark” where we reached 500 members in October 2001. I would guess that by March 2002 we had well over 5000 members. The average age of our members quickly went down to below 18 (maybe well below). The nature of the posts changed as well. I stumbled across a thread from late December 2001 where the poster proclaimed that he/she had just bought the books and the Hobbit comic book and asked were they too hard for a 14-year-old to read? This post was in all caps. What we came to term as “chat speak” became common (“do u luv habbits”). Members registered with “unusual” nicknames (see “i*love*orli”). Orlando Bloom became a major topic, though others had their personal favorites. We began experiencing trolls where previously they had been almost completely absent.

Directing traffic became a serious avocation at that time. Messaging rude or recalcitrant posters became frequent. Moving threads from forum to forum (Books to Movies or to Newcomers for example) or closing them outright became common. We no longer had the time to welcome new members as they first posted. It was not unusual to have ten or more “I’m new here” posts per day. Still, we tried to identify and encourage the more serious members while doing our best to keep up with the flood.

A new dynamic emerged. Older (both in age and in length of membership) members began to dislike or be openly critical of “newbies.” Some took it upon themselves to try to act as forum security. We discouraged this whenever we came across it. The “newbies” pushed back. Some purposefully caused trouble until they were suspended or banned. Others proclaimed that it was a free world and they had as much right to post whatever they wanted as anyone else. We tried hard to be tolerant. We tried to rein in the old-timers and (at least tried) to correct the new members. The chatroom became a nightmare. It was a free-for-all. We recruited people to try to moderate them and, actually, created a “secret” chatroom for the administrators and a few older members to quietly meet in. Even the private room was abandoned in a matter of months. I cannot exaggerate how challenging this period was.

I am unsure of the timing, but something else developed either in mid-2001 or early 2002. A well-known member opened a thread named something like “Let’s have our party here.” Set in a lounge, this was similar to some of our birthday parties, but, generally, toned down. Everyone posted “in character.” Many established members and even some of the administrators popped in. It ran for a month or two. Even though I think I know who started this thread, for the life of me I cannot find it. This was a precursor to the RPGs.

Whether inspired by the “party” thread (or the subsequent Birthday Party thread) or not, RPGs began emerging, spontaneously erupting in various forums. This led to a meeting of the powers that be. Some administrators were completely against RPGs. Others were more tolerant, so long as they were vaguely “on topic” and were monitored. Barrow-Wight set up a new forum for “freestyle” RPGs. Anyone could open a thread and pretty much anyone could join in. We warned that this was an experiment. Dozens of RPGs were started. Trouble soon followed. People complained that they were being shut out or ignored. Others complained that members were interfering with the “plots” or causing trouble. Games were started and abandoned or meandered on for months with no end in sight. Others had little or nothing to do with Tolkien at all. Our first official moderators were appointed to try to maintain order and civility. Ultimately, matters devolved to the point where the administrators decided to step in. The decision was close, and the choices were to prohibit RPGs entirely or to control them. We created a private sub-barrow and invited the best gamers, those who wrote well and had organizational skills, and we talked things out. There were a few ground rules. No more freestyle games, all games on topic, there had to be a plot and an identifiable point where the game would end. We created a tiered system for beginner, intermediate and experienced gamers. Moderators were appointed (this soon spread to all of the forums), there was an “application” process and only the mods could open new RPG threads. Existing games were distributed among the tiers. Some members did not like this and left. Others stuck it out and enjoyed themselves (generally). We even conducted tutorials. This lasted for a while.

A few final tales before I close this chapter. We sometimes received messages from parents of young members. Some noticed their kids posting on the Downs and asked if the forum was appropriate. Some complained about controversial topics. Here’s a story I have never told anyone. There was a thread opened called “gay subtext” that questioned whether the relationships between some of the characters implied, directly or indirectly, homosexuality. The first posts were cogent and pretty well thought out. I noticed this thread early, let the other administrators know about it, and tried to stay out. Some of our more conservative members took great offense. Their responses ranged from “of course not” to “how dare you!” Others tried to discuss the issue and defended posters’ rights to discuss a topic in an amicable manner. When well-established members started tossing insults at each other, I stepped in as a peacemaker, first discussing free speech, our pride in the thoughtful nature of our boards, and our policies against insults and flaming. The I added my own view on the matter, that Tolkien was writing about camaraderie and loyalty, not sexuality. I concluded with a warning to play nicely that went unheeded. I closed the thread for a day and reopened it. The fighting resumed. I decided to do some snooping and checked into the identities of a few troublemakers that seemed to be posting only to that thread. I found them all, using the same screennames, posting on another message board, and laughing about how they had riled up the “nerds.” Banned. The thread continued without them and was ultimately locked. What does this have to do with parents? Someone joined just for the purpose on making a single post and never posted again. The post? It was in the gay subtext thread and read “Try the delete button, Mith.” I communicated with this person and found one of their kids had been following along on this thread. We had a pleasant conversation about the importance of free speech, and how we watched over things. We never communicated again.

There are other stories that I could relate, but this post has gotten over-long. By the time the third movie had come out, our membership was north of 20,000, we had received any number of accolades, and things had calmed down a bit. Most, though not all, of our older members had weathered the storm. There has always been a rate of attrition, as I commented in my post above, so I do not know how many people left on their own for whatever reason or left due to the chaos. And it was chaos, at least at times.

I will conclude later with another shorter post about the post-movies period.

[Aiwendil]

That was quite enjoyable to read.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

November 1, 2021

Umm...



(EDIT: I am nothing if not helpful...and also unable to rep most of the people in this thread.)

[Mithadan]

Consider me corrected... and edited the post,

[Aiwendil]

Aw, for a minute there I thought I was still in my mid-twenties.

[Ring Bearer]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I will conclude later with another shorter post about the post-movies period.

I summon you to fulfill your oath.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Ring Bearer

I summon you to fulfill your oath.

Yeah!

[Mithadan]

Again, this "history" is entirely subjective. The word "I" appears all too often. I encourage others to tell their own stories.

Before I delve into the post-movies period, I’d like to add a few more comments on that three plus year time. While there were many challenges, there were also many enjoyable and funny times. For example, a member weighed in on a serious thread and argued a position that, as it turned out, was based upon one of my fan fictions. I took this as a compliment. There were also entertaining threads where members discussed “facts” that were unique to the movies, such as the scenes showing the birthing of Orcs in Orthanc, where book purists attempted to “correct” the movie fans and were often roundly ignored. I recall looking up “Figwit” because I had no idea what some posters were discussing. And, of course, there were the birthday parties. There were some memorable and creative posts in those threads. The opening of the second party thread drew so many members rushing in to post that they overloaded the capacity of our provider to keep up. Some posts were lost, others were seriously out of order and there was even a time lag in posts appearing. And there was still serious discussion, always.

A consequence of the burgeoning traffic was a marked increase in both the number of new threads as well as the number of posts in those threads. I recall peeking in during the morning, noting threads I found interesting and coming back later only to find dozens of posts with the thread’s subject changing as they went. I often found that I couldn’t take the time to read the entire thread and was often reluctant to post on the original topic when the thread had veered wildly off course. This was a factor in my eventually becoming “treeish.” Treeish, of course, is a reference to the Ents. In the context of these forums, it means established members posting less and less and often, and unfortunately, disappearing altogether.

At the same time, so many new threads were being created in the Books forum, posts that often should have gone into the Newcomers forum, that a serious thread would be opened and, within a short period of time, would become buried beneath other new threads so that members would not notice them. During this time, a little dismayed at the relative lack of serious threads, I undertook a project and encouraged others to help. I reread the books, including parts of HoME, took notes, and began starting substantive threads. I even developed a strategy. I would find an interesting subject, write an introduction followed by an open-ended question, with specific follow up posts in mind. Sometimes, my planned follow up posts would be mooted by the posts of others. I also sometimes would troll the archives and post to an old thread that I found interesting, bringing it “up to the top.” I still encourage others to do so.

The movies rush did not end with the release of Return of the King in December 2003. It continued for some time after that. Interest was spurred by a few factors. First, many who saw the movies then read the books and continued to post. Second, extended and director’s cut releases also drove interest. I cannot say with certainty when things began to taper off. Certainly, the traffic even in 2003 was less that early 2002. But by the end of 2004, things were certainly becoming quieter.

During the late and immediate post-movies period, I became involved in a few RPGs. This involvement eventually drew my attention away from other forums. Candidly, I was tired. Tired of policing and worn out by trying to encourage new substantive posts. I still have a notebook with thoughts for new threads scribbled down. Many I can barely figure out now. By mid-2006, one RPG that I was involved in had broken down. Another, Reunification of the Entish Bow, a parody well worth reading along with its predecessor, had finally wrapped up. I became full-blown treeish. For years, I barely posted. I took an intentional sabbatical during which I did not even look at the boards for a few months. My real life was very busy, and I almost succumbed to the “there’s nothing new to discuss” malady. Making things worse, the majority of the people who I had considered friends from the first few years disappeared entirely. I sometimes would reappear, do a mea culpa for my absence, and suggest that I was “back.” I even considered abandoning “Mithadan” entirely and starting up again with a new account.

For the purposes of complete disclosure, I have or had three accounts. I would use the alter egos for various purposes. There were a few times, during quiet periods, when I would actually “talk to myself” in a thread in an attempt to encourage posting. There was one occasion when a member was caught by his friends using a second account. For reasons that I do not recall, his friends took offense. He apologized and even suggested that he would abandon the Downs entirely. I used an exchange between Mithadan and an alter ego to poke fun at the situation and, together with some PMs, encouraged the member to stay. He still posts.

Obviously, I never left entirely. One event that helped draw me back, at least a bit, took place about ten (ish) years ago. The old, regimented, and structured RPG system was no longer working. The tiered forums and application process was discouraging and annoying potential participants. I stepped in and encouraged a dialogue for the airing of gripes and ideas. A contentious thread that reminded me of the old times. Ultimately, we did away with the old system and allowed a return, with some rules, of the freestyle RPG format. Unfortunately, while this was initially well received, by that time there generally was not a critical mass of enough interested members to resurrect RPGs on the Downs. Another casualty of social media, perhaps? Too many other ways to have fun online?

So, the Hobbit movies? There was some speculation that those releases might inspire a revival in posting. My suspicion, that those movies would not, turned out to be correct. Maybe this was because those movies were played as a pure action tale with little depth and too much absurdity. The departures from the story as written may also have contributed to the relative lack of interest in posting, beyond criticism. In 2001, Arwen wielding a sword at the fords of the Bruinen generated debate. The appearance of Tauriel in the Hobbit movies barely caused a blink. I have heard speculation that the upcoming series may also generate discussion. Perhaps…

I have tried to find enthusiasm in posting over the past few years. Sometimes I have inspiration and interest and, at other times I do not. This is apparently a common theme. At the tail end of last year’s birthday party (thank you Estelyn!) I made a toast to members departed. The list was distressingly long. Members have always come and gone here. Now, it seems, more go than come. This also factors into my lack of posts. Those that I deemed to be my comrades ten, fifteen or twenty years ago are now gone like wraiths in the wind or rarely appear and seldom stay. The analogy to the Elves departing as the ages progress is all too appropriate. Hmmmm, does that make me Cirdan, awaiting the last ship?

We still have a core of posters with varying interests and this is gratifying to me. Please continue to post! I will now issue the same challenge that I have made too many times in the past. Pick up the book that tickles your fancy, The Hobbit, LoTR, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, HoME, etc. and open the book at random. Read five pages. You will find something interesting. Then post! Simple or complex, it doesn’t matter. Why was Smaug not seen outside of the Mountain for years before the climatic events in The Hobbit? Doesn’t the beast need to eat? Was Baldog part of the canon and what was he anyway? Or scroll through the archives, find a thread from ten years ago and reawaken it with a new post.

I am still here because I am fascinated. By Tolkien and by the community. If you post, I will too.