History of this Forum

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Ring Bearer

I summon you to fulfill your oath.

Yeah!

[Mithadan]

Again, this "history" is entirely subjective. The word "I" appears all too often. I encourage others to tell their own stories.

Before I delve into the post-movies period, I’d like to add a few more comments on that three plus year time. While there were many challenges, there were also many enjoyable and funny times. For example, a member weighed in on a serious thread and argued a position that, as it turned out, was based upon one of my fan fictions. I took this as a compliment. There were also entertaining threads where members discussed “facts” that were unique to the movies, such as the scenes showing the birthing of Orcs in Orthanc, where book purists attempted to “correct” the movie fans and were often roundly ignored. I recall looking up “Figwit” because I had no idea what some posters were discussing. And, of course, there were the birthday parties. There were some memorable and creative posts in those threads. The opening of the second party thread drew so many members rushing in to post that they overloaded the capacity of our provider to keep up. Some posts were lost, others were seriously out of order and there was even a time lag in posts appearing. And there was still serious discussion, always.

A consequence of the burgeoning traffic was a marked increase in both the number of new threads as well as the number of posts in those threads. I recall peeking in during the morning, noting threads I found interesting and coming back later only to find dozens of posts with the thread’s subject changing as they went. I often found that I couldn’t take the time to read the entire thread and was often reluctant to post on the original topic when the thread had veered wildly off course. This was a factor in my eventually becoming “treeish.” Treeish, of course, is a reference to the Ents. In the context of these forums, it means established members posting less and less and often, and unfortunately, disappearing altogether.

At the same time, so many new threads were being created in the Books forum, posts that often should have gone into the Newcomers forum, that a serious thread would be opened and, within a short period of time, would become buried beneath other new threads so that members would not notice them. During this time, a little dismayed at the relative lack of serious threads, I undertook a project and encouraged others to help. I reread the books, including parts of HoME, took notes, and began starting substantive threads. I even developed a strategy. I would find an interesting subject, write an introduction followed by an open-ended question, with specific follow up posts in mind. Sometimes, my planned follow up posts would be mooted by the posts of others. I also sometimes would troll the archives and post to an old thread that I found interesting, bringing it “up to the top.” I still encourage others to do so.

The movies rush did not end with the release of Return of the King in December 2003. It continued for some time after that. Interest was spurred by a few factors. First, many who saw the movies then read the books and continued to post. Second, extended and director’s cut releases also drove interest. I cannot say with certainty when things began to taper off. Certainly, the traffic even in 2003 was less that early 2002. But by the end of 2004, things were certainly becoming quieter.

During the late and immediate post-movies period, I became involved in a few RPGs. This involvement eventually drew my attention away from other forums. Candidly, I was tired. Tired of policing and worn out by trying to encourage new substantive posts. I still have a notebook with thoughts for new threads scribbled down. Many I can barely figure out now. By mid-2006, one RPG that I was involved in had broken down. Another, Reunification of the Entish Bow, a parody well worth reading along with its predecessor, had finally wrapped up. I became full-blown treeish. For years, I barely posted. I took an intentional sabbatical during which I did not even look at the boards for a few months. My real life was very busy, and I almost succumbed to the “there’s nothing new to discuss” malady. Making things worse, the majority of the people who I had considered friends from the first few years disappeared entirely. I sometimes would reappear, do a mea culpa for my absence, and suggest that I was “back.” I even considered abandoning “Mithadan” entirely and starting up again with a new account.

For the purposes of complete disclosure, I have or had three accounts. I would use the alter egos for various purposes. There were a few times, during quiet periods, when I would actually “talk to myself” in a thread in an attempt to encourage posting. There was one occasion when a member was caught by his friends using a second account. For reasons that I do not recall, his friends took offense. He apologized and even suggested that he would abandon the Downs entirely. I used an exchange between Mithadan and an alter ego to poke fun at the situation and, together with some PMs, encouraged the member to stay. He still posts.

Obviously, I never left entirely. One event that helped draw me back, at least a bit, took place about ten (ish) years ago. The old, regimented, and structured RPG system was no longer working. The tiered forums and application process was discouraging and annoying potential participants. I stepped in and encouraged a dialogue for the airing of gripes and ideas. A contentious thread that reminded me of the old times. Ultimately, we did away with the old system and allowed a return, with some rules, of the freestyle RPG format. Unfortunately, while this was initially well received, by that time there generally was not a critical mass of enough interested members to resurrect RPGs on the Downs. Another casualty of social media, perhaps? Too many other ways to have fun online?

So, the Hobbit movies? There was some speculation that those releases might inspire a revival in posting. My suspicion, that those movies would not, turned out to be correct. Maybe this was because those movies were played as a pure action tale with little depth and too much absurdity. The departures from the story as written may also have contributed to the relative lack of interest in posting, beyond criticism. In 2001, Arwen wielding a sword at the fords of the Bruinen generated debate. The appearance of Tauriel in the Hobbit movies barely caused a blink. I have heard speculation that the upcoming series may also generate discussion. Perhaps…

I have tried to find enthusiasm in posting over the past few years. Sometimes I have inspiration and interest and, at other times I do not. This is apparently a common theme. At the tail end of last year’s birthday party (thank you Estelyn!) I made a toast to members departed. The list was distressingly long. Members have always come and gone here. Now, it seems, more go than come. This also factors into my lack of posts. Those that I deemed to be my comrades ten, fifteen or twenty years ago are now gone like wraiths in the wind or rarely appear and seldom stay. The analogy to the Elves departing as the ages progress is all too appropriate. Hmmmm, does that make me Cirdan, awaiting the last ship?

We still have a core of posters with varying interests and this is gratifying to me. Please continue to post! I will now issue the same challenge that I have made too many times in the past. Pick up the book that tickles your fancy, The Hobbit, LoTR, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, HoME, etc. and open the book at random. Read five pages. You will find something interesting. Then post! Simple or complex, it doesn’t matter. Why was Smaug not seen outside of the Mountain for years before the climatic events in The Hobbit? Doesn’t the beast need to eat? Was Baldog part of the canon and what was he anyway? Or scroll through the archives, find a thread from ten years ago and reawaken it with a new post.

I am still here because I am fascinated. By Tolkien and by the community. If you post, I will too.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

For the purposes of complete disclosure, I have or had three accounts. I would use the alter egos for various purposes. There were a few times, during quiet periods, when I would actually “talk to myself” in a thread in an attempt to encourage posting. There was one occasion when a member was caught by his friends using a second account. For reasons that I do not recall, his friends took offense. He apologized and even suggested that he would abandon the Downs entirely. I used an exchange between Mithadan and an alter ego to poke fun at the situation and, together with some PMs, encouraged the member to stay. He still posts.

I certainly recall a situation like that. I was PMing at the time with one who was genuinely hurt by it. I understood the reason the member had for the ruse, but also the feelings of the other parties. I felt it was only a matter of time before matters would rest, and it seems that was the case.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Obviously, I never left entirely. One event that helped draw me back, at least a bit, took place about ten (ish) years ago. The old, regimented, and structured RPG system was no longer working. The tiered forums and application process was discouraging and annoying potential participants. I stepped in and encouraged a dialogue for the airing of gripes and ideas. A contentious thread that reminded me of the old times. Ultimately, we did away with the old system and allowed a return, with some rules, of the freestyle RPG format. Unfortunately, while this was initially well received, by that time there generally was not a critical mass of enough interested members to resurrect RPGs on the Downs. Another casualty of social media, perhaps? Too many other ways to have fun online?

I was always interested in the RPGs, but had some doubt as to my ability to participate in one.
It was only after modding my first Werewolf game, and receiving a much appreciated compliment on my "storytelling", that I thought to actually try it.
Sadly, just as I was really getting into it, one of the main characters abruptly disappeared from the Downs, and it just petered out.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

So, the Hobbit movies? There was some speculation that those releases might inspire a revival in posting. My suspicion, that those movies would not, turned out to be correct. Maybe this was because those movies were played as a pure action tale with little depth and too much absurdity. The departures from the story as written may also have contributed to the relative lack of interest in posting, beyond criticism. In 2001, Arwen wielding a sword at the fords of the Bruinen generated debate. The appearance of Tauriel in the Hobbit movies barely caused a blink. I have heard speculation that the upcoming series may also generate discussion. Perhaps…

While I (grudgingly) did finally see the LOTR films, I saw too many previews, trailers, and discussions of TH to say, "no". And no. And no. Since all I was inclined to do was rail about it, it wasn't worth the effort.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I have tried to find enthusiasm in posting over the past few years. Sometimes I have inspiration and interest and, at other times I do not. This is apparently a common theme. At the tail end of last year’s birthday party (thank you Estelyn!) I made a toast to members departed. The list was distressingly long. Members have always come and gone here. Now, it seems, more go than come. This also factors into my lack of posts. Those that I deemed to be my comrades ten, fifteen or twenty years ago are now gone like wraiths in the wind or rarely appear and seldom stay. The analogy to the Elves departing as the ages progress is all too appropriate. Hmmmm, does that make me Cirdan, awaiting the last ship?

I find that recently a good deal of the discussions are involving "canon" and HoME type stuff. I seem to be getting more and more averse to that sort of speculation.
I have had a worry for quite some time, that delving too deeply into the "construction" aspect of the works will rub away some of the lustre, the elvishness, as it were. I hear Gandalf's admonition against breaking things to figure them out. As I get older, I only seem to want to enjoy Tolkien's works as stories, and take my own inner meanings as I like.
I'm always up though for the (no)wings Balrog debate, Bombadil's nature, or why Túrin really was to blame for his own fate and that of his family, Morgoth's curse notwithstanding.

[Mithadan]

I forgot to mention the werewolf games! Of course, this is because I never participated in one. As I said, my history of this site is subjective. I also did not mention The New Silmarillion forum and project which still, to some extent, lives and breathes. As I recall, Lindil was instrumental in getting it started. An ambitious undertaking; sift through HoME and try to figure out what JRRT's final conception of The Silmarillion was. I actually thought this was possible at the outset. I no longer do. First, it would require too much creative or interpretive writing to do it as JRRT may have intended. Only the tales of Beren and Luthien and of Turin were drawn out with any significant detail as the years progressed. The fall of Gondolin was only drawn out in detail in Lost Tales and the fall of Doriath was barely revisited except in summary. Second, I am no longer sure that Tolkien had a specific final version in mind. I have my own views on what Tolkien wanted The Silmarillion to be in his later years and have sympathy for him that he never achieved his vision.

I agree, Inziladun, that threads about HoME and NoME can be a bit off-putting. This is why I encourage members to open new threads or revive old ones that may be of broader interest.

[Formendacil]

My entire 'Downsian tenure (nearing 17 years) fits entirely into Mithadan's Third Chapter: Post-Movies. As such, I missed the heyday. But I did join pre-WereWolf!

Still, I think my experience of the 'Downs is "typical" insofar as it's generational. Though I missed the Movie years, I was a teenager (14, almost 15) when the FotR was released and I joined the forum where my peers--even those with three or more years on the forum--were the same age: teenagers just about coming of age whose teen years had become dominated by the Middle-earth experience. It's irrelevant to this larger picture that I was a pre-Movie, Book-first, didn't-have-a-fandom-till-the-Downs fan.

I would break my 'Downs years into three chunks that were more-or-less distinct, though they bleed together:

1. Teen Spirit! The forum was vibrant, I was online daily--well, nightly (well, nightly AND daily). This was roughly 2005-2008. This was pre-Social Media, and I was discovering who I was and so were all these other Internet Tolkien fans. This was an age when learning people's real names and seeing people's real faces was rare and generally only happened in private conversations, and there was still a stigma taken Very Seriously about meeting people you'd only known online, and I was still too young to have a chance to travel.

This was the era of Hookbill the Goomba's great race in the Mirth forum, of Werewolf appearing for the first time, of MSN and AIM chats late at night, of LiveJournal posts and Downer mutual-follows. There was still a lot of firepower in the Books forum, and occasional anger and spittle. Davem was banned and then unbanned and then banned again--and something like twenty of us unruly Millennials muttered about it on LiveJournal and PROTESTED.

2. The Social Media era. Eventually, since we'd all joined Facebook, we all got used to people's Real Names and Real Faces (the 40 or so that all friended each other, anyway). This was the era of Moots, since my generation was a little older and braver and had a little more money--and not too much responsibility yet. For me, this is era was 2008-2012ish. I met Brinn in person one summer, then Fëanor of the Peredhil the next, then Bostonmoot, then I changed countries for grad school, got engaged to someone met through the 'Downs, roommated with another 'Downer, had a near-Moot of a Wedding--and the entire trajectory of my life and the existence of my children now is because of this website.

This era was a bit quieter than the previous one: the slide between youthful post-Moviehood where there was still plenty of time to drown the website in youthful enthusiasm--and the later era of busy adulthood. Werewolf may have been a bit less frequent, but there were still regular games and growing frighteningly complex at times. People would fall of the face of the Earth, but in ones and twos, and they'd come back to find the community still bustling.

3. And then there's... now. People don't fall off the face of the forum singly, but only return singly. Real Life has enveloped people like me for the better part of a decade: nearly 35 years old, nearly a decade out of grad school, nearly a decade married--with all the pressures and demands this includes. For those of us who remain, the Downs is the same as ever, but the crests of each wave are days apart not minutes. Werewolf is becoming an annual event, if that, and the rest of the forum likewise adds to itself only intermittently.

We find comfort in the 'Downs still being here, and however long we return (weeks where once it was hours--indeed, the difference of the three eras for me might be Check Hourly, Check Daily, Check Weekly). It's harder to find energy to post when real life involves more intellectual drain and more demands on my time. There are more distractions in the world, from politics to pandemics to streaming services.

Where once the off-site elements just added to the swelter of the community, now they come a bit too close to replacing it. In truth, though, even those media are wearing old, and I'm only still on Facebook because I am an exile keeping up with home and because I'm a Downer who still finds social media fun because Encaitare or [/b]Boro[/b] or Lalwendë fill my timeline rather than Angry Relatives and Acquaintances.

This last stage has had occasional scares, where the forums goes down, and we all dread the day when no one can find The Barrow-Wight to wake it back up once again. One of the real joys I'm looking forward to post-pandemic (whenever we draw that line) is A Moot Again! They've been fewer in this era, but almost better: like mixing the comfort and joy of coming back to this forum with a Found Family Reunion.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Again, this "history" is entirely subjective. The word "I" appears all too often. I encourage others to tell their own stories.

I will do that when I have time. I think I did do bits here and there, but will get it all together here soon.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

The old, regimented, and structured RPG system was no longer working. The tiered forums and application process was discouraging and annoying potential participants. I stepped in and encouraged a dialogue for the airing of gripes and ideas. A contentious thread that reminded me of the old times. Ultimately, we did away with the old system and allowed a return, with some rules, of the freestyle RPG format. Unfortunately, while this was initially well received, by that time there generally was not a critical mass of enough interested members to resurrect RPGs on the Downs.

I was one who was put off by the rigidness of the RP forums here and opted to put my time in on other more freestyle Tolkien sites, and even creating my own forum on Runboard (which I still have though its down to me and my wife writing with each other there). My friend (who would become my wife in 2008) Elora and I made an attempt to group roleplay here in The Lingering Darkness which was based on an earlier RP we were in on TORC. After a few rounds of posts and getting PMs requesting I edit my post so it would go in a direction they wanted the story to go, I quit the RP as did Elora. Life at the time was a bit intense so I wasn't able to focus on writing RP, let alone try and participate in one that was being scripted via the OOC thread and by PM, so ended my serious attempt to RP on Barrow Downs. the 'relaxation' f the rules had me try and write in one of the inns, but my heart just wasn't into it and I retreated to writing my own fan fictions and collaborations with Elors which still goes on to this day.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

I have tried to find enthusiasm in posting over the past few years. Sometimes I have inspiration and interest and, at other times I do not. This is apparently a common theme. At the tail end of last year’s birthday party (thank you Estelyn!) I made a toast to members departed. The list was distressingly long. Members have always come and gone here. Now, it seems, more go than come. This also factors into my lack of posts. Those that I deemed to be my comrades ten, fifteen or twenty years ago are now gone like wraiths in the wind or rarely appear and seldom stay. The analogy to the Elves departing as the ages progress is all too appropriate. Hmmmm, does that make me Cirdan, awaiting the last ship?

Yes, this is a sad thing, and sadly, too many who I knew back in the early days of movie production on several forums have now been laid in their own Barrow. One was someone I wrote a lot with from 2000 to 2007. I lost touch with them in 2009 when my emails went unanswered. In early 2019, I got a notification from a forum called 'The Land of Rohan' that this person had posted there. One of our RPs was there and I had subscribed, but forgot about the place until I got this message. I visited, and found that her granddaughter was seeing to her affairs, which meant she was trying to log in on various sites in her old computer browser history. She had passed away at age 49.

Originally Posted by Mithadan

We still have a core of posters with varying interests and this is gratifying to me. Please continue to post! I will now issue the same challenge that I have made too many times in the past. Pick up the book that tickles your fancy, The Hobbit, LoTR, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, HoME, etc. and open the book at random. Read five pages. You will find something interesting. Then post! Simple or complex, it doesn’t matter. Why was Smaug not seen outside of the Mountain for years before the climatic events in The Hobbit? Doesn’t the beast need to eat? Was Baldog part of the canon and what was he anyway? Or scroll through the archives, find a thread from ten years ago and reawaken it with a new post.

I am still here because I am fascinated. By Tolkien and by the community. If you post, I will too.

Like I said earlier, I'll come through here irregularly and post as long as the site is working and I'm able to.
I'll post my full history here soon.

[Ring Bearer]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I'll post my full history here soon.

I thought I should remind you...

History of this forum would probably also include being a FAQ site for all things unwritten(or in Unfinished Tales). The level of geekiness on this forum is off the charts , you guys get linked even on Quora and Stackexchange !!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Ring Bearer

The level of geekiness on this forum is off the charts , you guys get linked even on Quora and Stackexchange !!

I, for one, consider that a notable compliment.

[Mithadan]

OK, true to form, I was exploring old threads, this time in the Newcomers forum. Keep in mind my post above from November 18, 2021 where I state as follows:

I have tried to find enthusiasm in posting over the past few years. Sometimes I have inspiration and interest and, at other times I do not. This is apparently a common theme. At the tail end of last year’s birthday party (thank you Estelyn!) I made a toast to members departed. The list was distressingly long. Members have always come and gone here. Now, it seems, more go than come. This also factors into my lack of posts. Those that I deemed to be my comrades ten, fifteen or twenty years ago are now gone like wraiths in the wind or rarely appear and seldom stay. The analogy to the Elves departing as the ages progress is all too appropriate. Hmmmm, does that make me Cirdan, awaiting the last ship?

So, in 2001, 20 years earlier, I posted this in a thread asking what character I related to best?

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...8&postcount=39

To be clear, I have no recollection of this post and, taken in context with my quote above, this is a bit odd....

[Inziladun]

Just goes to show you're consistent, Mith.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ring Bearer

The level of geekiness on this forum is off the charts , you guys get linked even on Quora and Stackexchange !!

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I, for one, consider that a notable compliment.

I don't even know what he's referencing, but if you're vouching for whatever he said, I trust your judgement, Inzil.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I don't even know what he's referencing, but if you're vouching for whatever he said, I trust your judgement, Inzil.

Why thank you, sir. I merely meant that "geekiness" is a badge of honour in my estimation.