"The Rings of Power" Vanity Fair article

[Huinesoron]

I don't know how much impact it's having on people's thoughts, but I've noticed a couple of us seem to be misinterpreting Galadriel's lone quest. She's not a reckless vigilante on the hunt for enemies long dead - she's right. There's literally a shot in the trailer of her finding the Morgoth--spawned enemies she's been insisting are there, while (presumably) Gil-Galad and Elrond brush the idea off. "Morgoth is banished," they say, "the Balrogs are slain, Sauron has slunk off never to be seen again - take it easy, there's no orcs or trolls anywhere this side of the Orocarni."

But there are. And as a high-ranked leader of the Noldor, Galadriel is well within her rights to ignore her possibly-nephew's complacency, take a few soldiers, put on her old armour (because going /un/armoured would be suicidal), and go get the evidence.

Which exists. Because she's right. The Enemy is still there; the War never ended. And the safety of one Artanis Nerwen isn't more important than proving the threat.

(Heck, even at the end of the Third Age she probably wore armour - I've always pictured her tearing down the walls of Dol Guldur with magic in a dress, but realistically, you wear armour so one Orc with a bow doesn't get insanely lucky.)

hS

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I don't know how much impact it's having on people's thoughts, but I've noticed a couple of us seem to be misinterpreting Galadriel's lone quest. She's not a reckless vigilante on the hunt for enemies long dead - she's right. There's literally a shot in the trailer of her finding the Morgoth--spawned enemies she's been insisting are there, while (presumably) Gil-Galad and Elrond brush the idea off. "Morgoth is banished," they say, "the Balrogs are slain, Sauron has slunk off never to be seen again - take it easy, there's no orcs or trolls anywhere this side of the Orocarni."

Congratulations on your newest venture into fan-fiction -- let us know when you've posted it. Galadriel didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 1st Age, and she didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 3rd Age. What, she only gets the urge every other Age? It's a good thing she sailed for Valinor at the end of the 3rd, cos', boy oh boy! she was ready to kick some a** in the 4th Age!

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Congratulations on your newest venture into fan-fiction -- let us know when you've posted it. Galadriel didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 1st Age, and she didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 3rd Age. What, she only gets the urge every other Age? It's a good thing she sailed for Valinor at the end of the 3rd, cos', boy oh boy! she was ready to kick some a** in the 4th Age!

That's one way of viewing it, I suppose. Maybe an attractive way if you're predisposed to hating and negative interpretation of what's being done here.

Another way might be to view it as a "show, don't tell" rendering of Tolkien's depiction of Galadriel as one of the Elven leaders who did not think evil was gone forever, and who wasn't taken in by Annatar. A clumsy one, maybe, but we really don't have sufficient information yet to be able to fully form that judgement.

It's correct to be cautious about this for sure, but it's not correct to go from 0 to 120 on the internet hate fest at this stage.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by mhagain

It's correct to be cautious about this for sure, but it's not correct to go from 0 to 120 on the internet hate fest at this stage.

Unless you're a shill for a corporate mega-conglomerate, calling out nonsense is completely acceptable as far as I'm concerned. And there is a lot of nonsense in just a brief trailer.

Just a trailer! Any half intelligent producer with the slightest clue of the work they are expropriating should have at least made a trailer that wouldn't alienate readers. And from what I've read elsewhere, I am not the only one who finds these cute little fan-fic deviations to be flat-out juvenile Mary-Sue level scripting. But if that's the type of story plotting you like following, by all means dish out your dollars to Amazon.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I don't know how much impact it's having on people's thoughts, but I've noticed a couple of us seem to be misinterpreting Galadriel's lone quest. She's not a reckless vigilante on the hunt for enemies long dead - she's right. There's literally a shot in the trailer of her finding the Morgoth--spawned enemies she's been insisting are there, while (presumably) Gil-Galad and Elrond brush the idea off. "Morgoth is banished," they say, "the Balrogs are slain, Sauron has slunk off never to be seen again - take it easy, there's no orcs or trolls anywhere this side of the Orocarni."

But there are. And as a high-ranked leader of the Noldor, Galadriel is well within her rights to ignore her possibly-nephew's complacency, take a few soldiers, put on her old armour (because going /un/armoured would be suicidal), and go get the evidence.

Which exists. Because she's right. The Enemy is still there; the War never ended. And the safety of one Artanis Nerwen isn't more important than proving the threat.

(Heck, even at the end of the Third Age she probably wore armour - I've always pictured her tearing down the walls of Dol Guldur with magic in a dress, but realistically, you wear armour so one Orc with a bow doesn't get insanely lucky.)

It's not the armour that's the problem. I don't think that part is such a stretch. It's what they do with that point, and if anything remains to the clever and ambitious and insightful Galadriel except for her armour. Am I being pessimistic? Yes. I acknowledge the possibility of being pleasantly surprised, but I won't bet on it.

As for the rest - Galadriel is influential. She is a leader. She doesn't end up in a situation where she is all alone against the world. She persuades people. If those people are not her Noldorin relatives, they are people of her following. She sends spies and scouts. She organizes patrols. She gathers intelligence in ways that are accessible only to her as Melian's student. At the very least, if she believes her presence is more necessary on a quest than at the heart of her kingdom, she still doesn't go alone. She is supposed to play the game on a bigger scale, as the leader of a kingdom, or at least a large population. A place to which she got with all her characteristics and experiences listed upstream the thread. And what really hurts me is that of all those characteristics, the only one that seems to have survived so far was her tomboyishness.

But I admire your optimism. I agree that it is not outside the realm of possibility that actually this can all make sense within a reasonable portrayal of Galadriel. I just don't have your faith that it could be such.

Why couldn't they just stick to Numenor or something and be as unreasonable as they want with some Second Age king I don't even remember? Make up a whole backstory for him and his court, it would not even severely contradict anyone's head cannon... Gil-Galad and Galadriel could make appearances - appearances, not lead roles - to tie the story to what is known in the movieverse... That would have been grand.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Congratulations on your newest venture into fan-fiction -- let us know when you've posted it. Galadriel didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 1st Age, and she didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 3rd Age. What, she only gets the urge every other Age? It's a good thing she sailed for Valinor at the end of the 3rd, cos', boy oh boy! she was ready to kick some a** in the 4th Age!

Galadriel didn't go hunting? That is outright not true. Command armies? When she is the head of the state, she certainly directs her armies... the strategy if not the tactics. If Denethor can be said to be a commander, so can she - and this is at the minimum, going by what is explicitly written in the text. As for wearing armour, I don't see how that would be such a stretch for her to occasionally do it. She was a tomboy after all. I don't find the bare fact as unbelievable as you.

(And if we stick to the bare text when it comes to dress, most of the people of ME would have to go around naked, lacking an explicit statement regarding wearing any sort of clothing).

Third Age Galadriel in LOTR seems so wise, and you can hardly imagine her otherwise. But in the context of The Sil, the difference in the 1st and 3rd Age Galadriel is also that by LOTR she is tired; she accepts defeat, she no longer wants to fight the windmills of time, and this repeated acceptance humbles her. The question is - will this be evident from the show's backstory? Or is it going to be "Galadriel was foolhardy and high spirited and brash, but then she grew out of it and became calm and wise"?

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Just a trailer! Any half intelligent producer with the slightest clue of the work they are expropriating should have at least made a trailer that wouldn't alienate readers. And from what I've read elsewhere, I am not the only one who finds these cute little fan-fic deviations to be flat-out juvenile Mary-Sue level scripting.

I mean, to be fair, often trailers end up as the worst representation of a movie, and if you wanna convince someone not to watch a movie, show them the trailer. I don't know how this paradox happens.

But yes. Absolutely expecting juvenile level character arcs and plot development. And, I mean, in the event that some of it isn't that - I would be pleasantly surprised.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Command armies? When she is the head of the state, she certainly directs her armies... the strategy if not the tactics.

Yes, but note Appendix B: "when the Shadow passed, Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lorien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed." Which I read as saying that the Lord of the Galadhrim was the military commander, the general and warrior, and the Lady's role was more magical and mystical. (Note also the parallel phrasing to Luthien's destruction of Sauron's tower on Tol-in-Gaurhoth long before: again, Luthien put forth her power after Huan, and Beren sort of, had already defeated Sauron and driven him off.)

I suppose it's worth mentioning that Elrond (who clearly was a general, at least during the First War of the Rings) was present at the battle of Dagorlad and the siege of Barad-dur with Gil-galad, as was Thranduil's father Oropher, but Galadriel makes no mention of having been there herself.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Galadriel didn't go hunting? That is outright not true. Command armies? When she is the head of the state, she certainly directs her armies...

See WCH's most recent post.

When I referred to hunting, I was referring to balrogs and orcs (not a traditional bow hunt for four-hooved mammals). When I referred to commanding armies, I was not referring to a sovereign sending generals into battle, but rather that Galadriel was not a field general with sword in hand like Henry V exhorting his troops, "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead!"

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Congratulations on your newest venture into fan-fiction -- let us know when you've posted it. Galadriel didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 1st Age, and she didn't don armor and go hunting or command armies in the 3rd Age. What, she only gets the urge every other Age? It's a good thing she sailed for Valinor at the end of the 3rd, cos', boy oh boy! she was ready to kick some a** in the 4th Age!

Thanks! The Third Age equivalent is over here, let me know what you think!

But seriously, the articles and trailer make it clear that what I outlined is exactly what the showrunners are doing. They're not showing Galadriel on some quixotic quest - they're showing her as the only person who recognises the threat and is willing to do something about it. That's all I was pointing out.

And that concept is taken directly from Unfinished Tales:

"But eventually Galadriel... percieved that there was an evil controlling purpose abroad in the world, and that it seemed to proceed from a source further to the East, beyond Eriador and the Misty Mountains."

Tolkien specifically cites Galadriel as both becoming aware of and perceiving the rising threat of Sauron. She later "scorns" him as Annatar, but - despite (again in this account) being ruler of Eregion, doesn't throw him out. Tolkien is painting a clear picture of Galadriel as the one person who believes the Shadow is out there.

In this account, her involvement in the founding of Eregion is specifically as a ward against Sauron and to forge a a military alliance with Khazad-Dum (note that "Ost-in-Edhil" means "Fortress of the Elves". She crosses the mountains and acts against Sauron's influence in Lorinand, and later moves there to "[take] up rule, and defence against Sauron".

This is what we know Galadriel was up to, in the part of the Second Age which has been temporally compressed into season 1 of the show: she was an active, mobile, military presence who is the only person named as working to counter Sauron. Could she have done all that in a flowing white dress? Maybe, but it seems foolhardy when Elvish armour is available.

(As for the other Ages: in the First she was a student in a time of peace, and apparently left Beleriand entirely before war broke back out. In the Third, she was tied to Lorien, both as its ruler and as the bearer of Nenya.)

hS