Finduilas and the Doom of Turin - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mithadan*** · 05-07-2022, 01:06 PM

In light of the recent discussion in the Tragic Flaw of the Hurin Family thread, I am bumping this to the top as it discusses similar or parallel issues regarding the nature of Morgoth's curse. In particular, Aiwendil's discussion of whether the curse is internal (driven by Turin's own choices and actions) or external (caused by Morgoth's malevolent influence). Aiwendil suggests that I espouse the external view, and he is partially correct. I believe that Turin's exercises of his free will was influenced by Morgoth's focus and attention so that his choices and actions went awry. However, I do not view the curse as being a "thing" that attached to Turin, his mother and sister causing perpetual bad luck. Rather, I view the curse as requiring a degree of Morgoth's attention (see DaveM's post) to nudge Hurin's family along, though their characters and personalities may have been affected so that even when Morgoth was not paying attention, their actions went astray.

Inziladun · 05-07-2022, 02:30 PM

It seems to me that while Morgoth steered adverse circumstances into Túrin's way, it was the latter's own choices (mainly an artifact of his pride) that effected the "curse" in the end.

If Túrin had awaited Thingol's judgement for the slaying of Saeros, would he have ever left Doriath? Or, if he had accepted the word of Beleg that all had been forgiven, would Morwen and Nienor have needed to seek him?

05-07-2022, 01:06 PM	#1
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,396	In light of the recent discussion in the Tragic Flaw of the Hurin Family thread, I am bumping this to the top as it discusses similar or parallel issues regarding the nature of Morgoth's curse. In particular, Aiwendil's discussion of whether the curse is internal (driven by Turin's own choices and actions) or external (caused by Morgoth's malevolent influence). Aiwendil suggests that I espouse the external view, and he is partially correct. I believe that Turin's exercises of his free will was influenced by Morgoth's focus and attention so that his choices and actions went awry. However, I do not view the curse as being a "thing" that attached to Turin, his mother and sister causing perpetual bad luck. Rather, I view the curse as requiring a degree of Morgoth's attention (see DaveM's post) to nudge Hurin's family along, though their characters and personalities may have been affected so that even when Morgoth was not paying attention, their actions went astray. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

05-07-2022, 02:30 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	It seems to me that while Morgoth steered adverse circumstances into Túrin's way, it was the latter's own choices (mainly an artifact of his pride) that effected the "curse" in the end. If Túrin had awaited Thingol's judgement for the slaying of Saeros, would he have ever left Doriath? Or, if he had accepted the word of Beleg that all had been forgiven, would Morwen and Nienor have needed to seek him? __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.