**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E1 - "A Shadow of the Past"

[Boromir88]

Regarding the area the series is calling the Southlands, from what I vaguely recall of the map is as Tar Elenion was directly east of Mordor. So, it looks to be where Gondor would later be established.

I've got no problems with this depiction as I would say it could be from the Elvish perspective of being south of Lindon/Eregion. Boromir is introduced by Elrond as:

"Here," said Elrond, turning to Gandalf, "is Boromir, a man from the South."~The Council of Elrond

In Bree, I think it's Butterbur (it may have been Aragorn) who noted there's a lot of strangers coming from the South. I've thought of them as just being people from Gondor, trying to escape the brooding war. I think there may be some spies from Saruman mixed in, but it seemed like there was angst among the Bree-landers about the new travelers from the South.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Oddwen

A few folks here have mentioned how jarring it is that Galadriel looks younger than Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor, etc. but I like to think it's because she has seen the two trees.

I like that interpretation! Clever.

Originally Posted by Oddwen

The sailing to Valinor scene did seem pretty creepy, I bet it will be even more so when Ar-Pharason tries to sail it.

Oh yeees, I did not realise that... well, that was Chekov's gun, in that case. Clever. Maybe the authors then know what they want to do in the last season. Or at least I would hope so.

But in that case I sort of pity that this show is not Game of Thrones after all. You know, generally I despise graphic violence, but the idea of Ar-Pharazon being chopped in half by the curtain... then the gold turns red... okay, okay, let's save it for some tasteless horror flick.

Originally Posted by Oddwen

Charles Edwards (and Trystan Gravelle who will be Ar-Pharazon]) was in "The Terror" which is one of my favorite tv shows, I didn't recognize him until he started talking. I'll forgive him for being a bit too aged (maybe he's just been standing over too many forges). I'm already kind of sad for Celebrimbor's bloody end but I think that will be cool to see. I hope we get to see a lot of the things he makes.

Oh no! I did not realise either of them were in The Terror! Of course, now that you mention it... I mentally crossed him off the list of actors I might know when Greenie screamed that he was in Downtown Abbey (but then, who wasn't). Nice.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Heralds weren't really warriors, but they may be involved in armoury as part of a household, and they may have been involved in battle, certainly they'd have to be able to handle themselves even if not part of the ranks.

Book Elrond is definitely keen on banners, so...

One of the aspects of the new series I am keen to see develop. Obvious already that Elrond has had a role negotiating with the dwarves.

Yes, in that respect, he is quite a diplomat, isn't he? Actually the more I think of it, I kinda like the show's take on him. But I have to say that I am still waiting for him to "bloom", to show his personality and what defines him and drives and motivates him in full. (I think the problem is again so far the lack of focus. People are going about their daily business, unaware that eeevil is rising, but so far I have not seen any agenda from them - besides Celebrimbor.

That's why I, incidentally, think that they missed the boat with not giving Galadriel the agenda of building her own kingdom - or should I rather say keeping that agenda, as it were. It would have given her a more proactive focus that then Sauron would throw a wrench into. The same Gil-Galad. The whole problem of the Second Age Elves - AND Men - was that they were proactive, and Sauron simply turned it against them.

Maybe they should now do some turnover that now that the audience knows about the existing danger, Galadriel et al should get temporarily placated and lulled into a sense that against their better judgment everything is fine after all, and start going about their own agendas.)

Ahem. That was quite an excurse. What I wanted to say was that I can imagine Elrond - and the show seems to start well in that direction - in his youth being the sort of geek into coats of arms and all such sorts of lore. I would have also loved to see him in the role of Gil-Galad's "fanboy" that would develop into the herald position.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Regarding the area the series is calling the Southlands, from what I vaguely recall of the map is as Tar Elenion was directly east of Mordor. So, it looks to be where Gondor would later be established.

I do not recall the map, but if it is east, then it would be Nurn, not Gondor. Gondor is west.

Anyway, to me it seemed to me that the maps were generally vague, usually showing a fairly large area without clear borders, perhaps exactly in order to preserve the "ta-da!" effect of "...and this place became Mordor" (or Gondor, or what-have-you). And of course to reflect the reality of the time: Middle-Earth was, from all we know, in a sort of "Dark Ages", and there likely were not any bigger statelike bodies.

Originally Posted by Boro

I've got no problems with this depiction as I would say it could be from the Elvish perspective of being south of Lindon/Eregion. Boromir is introduced by Elrond as:

In Bree, I think it's Butterbur (it may have been Aragorn) who noted there's a lot of strangers coming from the South. I've thought of them as just being people from Gondor, trying to escape the brooding war. I think there may be some spies from Saruman mixed in, but it seemed like there was angst among the Bree-landers about the new travelers from the South.

For the record, I always understood that "South" in both these cases simply meant "South for us, i.e. basically anything south from here". If you are a mostly stationary peasant (or even noble) and your world is centered on your home country (if not village), then if you are a Haradian, obviously even folk from Nurn are "Northerners" for you, or if you are Forodwaith, then Breelanders are "Southerners". I remember finding it somewhat "wrong" that Bill Ferny's companion was dubbed "the sly Southerner", but I still understood that it did not mean that he had an oliphaunt in his barn (though it would explain why he needed to make more space by selling the pony).

Specifically, I have always understood the immigrants into Bree not as being from Gondor (horribly far!), but simply from the "empty places" between Isen and Brandywine (Enedwaith, Minhiriath - the few folk that still survived there), at most Dunlanders (which would explain Saruman's spies et al). There was trouble and war not only in Gondor, but probably all sorts of bandits, Orcs, wolves, Dunlending raiders pushed from their lands by other raiders and so on, that would affect everybody.

But this would be for another thread.

[Tar Elenion]

I must have missed the *Celebrimbor mention re: age.

Celebrimbor was born in Aman, his mother refused to go into Exile and remained behind.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I do not recall the map, but if it is east, then it would be Nurn, not Gondor. Gondor is west.

It might have been to the west. I thought I remembered seeing the Ephel Duath, and the Southlands starting right below the Ered Nimrais. But my memory of the map is sketchy.

I do recall the Watchwarden telling Arondir that this land used to be wasteland before the Elves came, and now under their watch it's transformed into a luscious, green valley. That's why I wanted some more backstory between the Elves occupation of the Southlands. Why are the people that live here evil? Why are they happy (most of them) the Elves are gone? If the land has become rich and fertile for growing.

[Galadriel55]

I have watched the first three episodes now. I started out with a List of impressions, but then scrapped it, because there's no sense in belabouring and rehashing much of what has been said already. There were parts that I liked, there were parts that I didn't like, but for the most part I just found that it's dull. There is only one storyline in which I found myself even remotely invested, and that's the Harfeet. Like many others here, I discovered that they are quite enjoyable - I like their secretive ways and their costumes and mannerisms and peculiar expressions - wheels and carts and goats and all that. And, surprisingly, I don't mind too much in a detached sort of way what they are doing with the Stranger. But for the rest of the story - for the most part it is just so... forgettable. No, really. It's forgettable. If I never finish the show, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it. I purposefully pushed starting to watch it for a few episodes to be out so that I can watch straight to where the plot thickens, but in 3 episodes it's failed to make me invested in all but one storyline. I am left quite uncurious about what happens next, and utterly not invested in the majority of their characters. There are two reasons for watching the show at this point; one is inertia, the "one more episode" thing, but that doesn't work when it's just being released one episode at a time. The second - and hence only - reason is that this is probably going to be the talk on the Downs and the subject of many debates and deliberations and jokes and discussions of all sorts for months to come, and I'd probably watch it to keep abreast of the talk on the street, so to speak. Who knows, maybe it does get better over time - more believable characters, more thought-out plot - but so far I find myself trying my best to like it but finding myself unmoved by the overall effect.

I will post some more specific impressions on other corresponding threads, including the stuf I did like. But for now, since I have been forewarned to pay attention to certain questions, I can answer the geographic debate about Southlands. The first time that name appears on the map, it is distinctly EAST of Mordor. The second time it is shown, it's written all over the Gondor/Mordor area. My conclusion is that "Southlands" is literally just a broad term for the south of the ME map (but not as south as Harad).

[Blind Guardian]

You have summed up how I feel 100%. Next Friday Fate the Winx Saga season 2 comes out and that it what I'm excited for and will be watching. If I still feel like it, then I'll come back to RoP.