**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S1E4 - "The Great Wave"

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Legate, I believe you wrote a comment in the Episode 3 thread about the Meteor Man and not finding out anymore to uncover his mystery. Unfortunately, it might be one of the mysteries that get strung along. The actor playing him said in an interview, prior to the series, that the mystery of The Stranger and his purpose isn't revealed in Season 1. I don't think he gave anymore as far as when it's "revealed" but we're at least going to get 5 more episodes of clues, or red herrings, with no actual resolution.

Really? Well, a shame. That sounds like another example of the show's bad pacing. Doesn't sound like he's going to have much of an arc in season 1 then, and rather like he's just gonna be there. Which begs the question why did they even introduce him (or the harfoots) yet, if the plot has nowhere to go yet.

Originally Posted by Boro

My thoughts though are it could possibly put me off from the show if Halbrand is Sauron. It would completely ruin Galadriel's character, for me. Even more so than this "there is a tempest in me" and feeling like she's going to have some sort of tantrum every time another authority figure tells her no. I mean, Galadriel is someone we know who has remarkable insight into people (even before her ring) it's established she is known to be able to read people. They've already established will not rest in defeating Sauron, obsessively hunting for him after Finrod's death, rejected Annatar (because she's a superb judge of character). To have her fooled in a cheap "gotcha" Halbrand is Sauron, would butcher her character, imo. I don't think the showrunners are that terrible to pull a Halbrand is Sauron. At least they haven't shown they are yet.

Agreed. Also it would make the sexual tension between them even more cringy. (Fortunately they haven't really played that angle the way I was afraid they would. It seemed like that in episode 2 but they have seemed to take a step back since and I didn't really get that vibe from episode 4 anymore, thankfully.) But Galadriel coming back to rescue Halbrand to help him reclaim his throne seemed quite undeserved to me, and it would be worse if he was Sauron. I mean, currently I can buy it that she sees in him potential for greatness (or decency) that I just personally don't see.

[Huinesoron]

We've just watched it tonight. My wife initially enjoyed the show, but has dropped back to just admiring the visuals, having declared the plot and scenes "a bit too Game of Thrones" after episode 3 (specifically Halbrand's bezerker rage). I'm still more forgiving.

In the absence of the Harfeet, I felt the Southlanders were the "most LotR-ish" portion. Theo in particular hits a lot of Hobbit beats - hiding from evil, escaping through the woods, even using sunlight as safety and an end to the battle. Evil Butterbur feels like someone you could encounter on the grottier edges of Tolkien's writing, and even the whole "swear fealty or be destroyed" is an echo of the Mouth of Sauron.

So, Adar. He's not a god, so I don't think he's Sauron - my guess is we haven't seen Sauron yet, and that he will first appear as Annatar (probably not named as such). If he's not just Evil McElfy... I'm going to throw out two longshot options: he is either Maglor or Feanor.

Maglor I'm pretty sure is said to be alive in LOTR, while Feanor - I checked - is never said to be dead. We've been told a lot of lies, didn't he say? And Feanor has been name checked at least once. I would laugh so hard if he was Feanor.

I enjoyed the Moria scenes - Elrond's daddy issues make a lot of sense, actually, and the dwarves were... I mean, they're just fun. Durin and Disa are the actors who most seem like they're enjoying themselves, which is always positive.

I think the state of Numenor is becoming clearer. They rebelled against Tar-Palantir, so Miriel was given the sceptre as regent. The west of Numenor seems to be almost independent - the Faithful are out there, including Anarion, and nobody seems to be doing anything about it. I assume they gave Tar-Palantir one of the palantiri, and kept the others hidden. (Someone asked why Galadriel had handled a palantiri before - I mean, her uncle made the things, right?)

I read Miriel as secretly Faithful, but having to completely hide it to avoid another rebellion. Pharazon is trying to keep her under control, but also secure his own powerbase. I suspect his usurpation will be caused by the death of either Tar-Palantir, or his son Kemen, or both. His marriage to Miriel isn't mentioned in LOTR, but could still happen.

Halbrand is increasingly sketchy, though I'm not entirely clear on whether he told Pharazon where Galadriel was going (would he really let Miriel confront her in private?). I think the whole Southland is in an interesting moral place - the Elves have been wildly racist and oppressive towards them, so why *wouldn't* they turn to Sauron, especially if he shows up separately to the orcs? Especially especially if the elf-led Numenorean invasion leads to the canonical Numenorean slave economy.

hS

[Tar Elenion]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Maglor I'm pretty sure is said to be alive in LOTR, while Feanor - I checked - is never said to be dead. We've been told a lot of lies, didn't he say? And Feanor has been name checked at least once. I would laugh so hard if he was Feanor.

Maglor is not mentioned in LotR. And both are implied to be dead:
"The sons of Eärendil were Elros and Elrond, the Peredhil or Half-elven. In them alone the line of the heroic chieftains of the Edain in the First Age was preserved; and after the fall of Gil-galad the lineage of the High-elven Kings was also in Middle-earth only represented by their descendants."
LotR, App. A

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

Maglor is not mentioned in LotR. And both are implied to be dead:
"The sons of Eärendil were Elros and Elrond, the Peredhil or Half-elven. In them alone the line of the heroic chieftains of the Edain in the First Age was preserved; and after the fall of Gil-galad the lineage of the High-elven Kings was also in Middle-earth only represented by their descendants."
LotR, App. A

I would have sworn he was in the Appendices, but I stand corrected.

For Feanor, all that means he has to die before Gil-Galad, which I figure is a given - unless he's Sauron or the Mouth, Adar can't survive the series without raising serious questions as to where he went. Yes, I'm firmly committed to this crackpot theory now.

All right, a replacement for Maglor as my backup theory: Turgon. Namedropped as king of Gondolin and Elrond's ancestor in Appendix A, and therefore as the wielder of Glamdring. Lots of lovely family connections to play with, and for bonus points his canonical death has him dying in his collapsing tower, which he could plausibly have survived with, I dunno, burn scars or something.

Darn, I think that might actually be a reasonable theory. There's enough Gondolin across Hobbit and LotR that they could easily do a flashback to the Goblin Wars when his identity is revealed.

Whoever Adar is, I'm kind of hoping he sets up against Sauron, rather than just being his servant. It would be fun to see the Saruman dynamic replicated and drawn out a little more.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

All right, a replacement for Maglor as my backup theory: Turgon. Namedropped as king of Gondolin and Elrond's ancestor in Appendix A, and therefore as the wielder of Glamdring. Lots of lovely family connections to play with, and for bonus points his canonical death has him dying in his collapsing tower, which he could plausibly have survived with, I dunno, burn scars or something.

LOL. While I do not necessarily subscribe to the theory as the most plausible way the show is gonna go, this is another fanfic I would want to see.

[Huinesoron]

Speaking of people being canon characters in disguise... with all Galadriel's talk about Halbrand being a king, someone online reminded me that there is actually a canonical late-Second Age king in future Gondor: the King of the Dead.

And it would fit. I don't think Halbrand is likely to go full Sauron-cultist (as someone said, it would really put Galadriel in a bad light). But from what we've seen up to Episode 4, he is absolutely the sort who would flatly refuse to let his people go to fight in someone else's war. Particularly since he's in contact with Numenor this early - I could see something like Isildur saving his life, and when he claims his throne he swears an oath there and then, that "if you are ever in need, Isil, just say the word and I will bring my entire kingdom to help you if that's what it takes". And then when Isildur comes back for the Last Alliance, he's all, "that was a long time ago; I have responsibilities, and your squabble with Sauron is none of my business."

This could also mean that some of those bit-part Southlanders are destined to become ghostly warriors, hang out in a cave for millennia, and then help Aragorn spook a few sailors before finally heading off to Mandos.

hS