Beren in Dagor Dagorath

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Whoa, what a thread!

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Because Tolkien's great victories don't usually come through standing on a battlefield in single combat. Beren retrieved the Silmaril while Morgoth slept; Turin hid and struck Glaurung from below; Merry stabbed the Witch-King in the back so Eowyn could take him out; and of course the whole War of the Ring was a vast diversion to keep Sauron from noticing Frodo and Sam pushing his self-destruct button. Would the Final Battle be any different? I mean, heck, Beren Camlost would never be seen on a battlefield if he could possibly be unseen instead.

Literally even before I saw Hui's answer my thought was something along these lines. Beren (and Túrin?) being the Merry to Tulkas's Éowyn, so to speak.

But of course the concept of Dagor Dagorath itself is in this sense very un-Tolkien-y: it is hard to imagine anyone pulling some Frodo trick in the middle of a battle that is literally meant to be a battle and nothing else (note the word root "dagor" repeating twice). The equivalent being... hm hmm... well, "pulling a Frodo trick" would mean destroying the Ring while the Enemy is otherwise occupied, ergo... ergo while Tulkas distracts Melkor, Beren - who after all was apt at stealing Simarils from under others' noses - destroys Morgoth's 'Ring'! Oh wait... Morgoth's Ring... where have I heard that...

Okay, seems like I inadverently devised an unexpected twist version of Dagor Dagorath, where somehow, while the supernatural powers are concerned with their massive battle of cosmic proportions, the humble Men, the humble Children of Eru, represented specifically by Beren, steal and destroy Arda, thus bringing about the victory of the 'good guys'. You're welcome.

(Yeah, this is my self that relishes in absurd drama and dadaism speaking here: I have no idea how this would actually come to be, but I just accept the notion that it would. The rest are details.)

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So late-stage Tolkien was thinking of a more general battle. If Turin is taking on Ancalagon (as well as Morgoth), perhaps Beren should face his own monster? A Wolf would be more of an iconic foe for him than Sauron, especially since the quote names him Camlost, after his missing hand. Perhaps he's there for a rematch with Carcharoth - or, yes, Wolf Sauron, bigger and badder and grumpier than before.

I vote for Tevildo. Dogs, cats, all the same.

But yes, if we go with the full-scale battle, then Wolf Sauron would make a lot of sense. Even though I somehow feel that if we take the analogy, then we should take into account that Túrin is not fighting the same Glaurung, but he is fighting Ancalagon. So following the same logic, Beren should not be fighting Sauron either. What is Ancalagon? Some sort of Glaurung's offspring, a "follow-up", powerful, more mobile though not as old. I don't think we can find a perfect analogy, but one of the first obvious thoughts is the Witch-King. This would have several advantages:

1) We'd have a "named" representative of the evil Men on the side, so we get the "mortal" side of the battle. If Men are so instrumental to this climactic event, or to the fate of the universe as it is continuously hinted at in various places, it would be only "fair" to underline this by having some of them also on the other side. (I am not doubting that there would not be some horde of evil Men, if we are thinking the massive-scale battle, but it would add something to it if we had a "named" - yet-not-really-named, which I, sidenote, sorta personally like for the notion that evil does not get to be remembered - representative.)

2) It would in a lovely manner underline the ominous line in LotR where, after Witch-King gets chopped down by Éowyn, it says "...a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that age of this world." (emphasis mine) Now we'd know that this refers to Dagor Dagorath, and we'd know exactly where!

3) Purely cosmetic addendum, since I mentioned the differences between Túrin's original and later foes, Glaurung and Ancalagon, as Ancalagon being the "more mobile", now I can imagine WK riding on some Fell Beast into the final battle and also being "mobile". Not necessary, but why not.