The case for Dorwinion being an Elvish realm (+ speculation about Bladorthin)

[Tar Elenion]

Tolkien's "annotated" map has Dorwinion located on it (article will explain the provenance):

https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2015/...h-transcribed/

[Mithadan]

Yes, even Pauline Baynes' poster map has Dorwinion at a similar location, just east of the Sea of Rhun. Tolkien was generally fond of her work.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Yes, even Pauline Baynes' poster map has Dorwinion at a similar location, just east of the Sea of Rhun. Tolkien was generally fond of her work.

Did you mean west of the Sea of Rhun?

[Mithadan]

Yes, west. Apologies.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Yes, west. Apologies.

Alas, wine has been the Rhun of many a fine philosopher.

[Tar Elenion]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Yes, even Pauline Baynes' poster map has Dorwinion at a similar location, just east of the Sea of Rhun. Tolkien was generally fond of her work.

The (green) annotation on this map is Tolkien indicating to her where she should place Dorwinion on the 'poster map'.

[Mithadan]

Yes, Scull and Hammond's Chronology relates that on August 28, 1969, Tolkien mailed Pauline Baynes a copy of the LoTR map (that she had previously provided) with added annotations and corrections. The annotated version was provided in connection with her preparation of the "poster map" (Unwin's term). This, I assume, is the map shown in your link. JRRT first began corresponding with Baynes in 1949 when she was illustrating Farmer Giles.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It wasn't unknown to reproduce place-names from the Undying Lands in Middle-earth: ex. Lorien.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

It wasn't unknown to reproduce place-names from the Undying Lands in Middle-earth: ex. Lorien.

I know...but - who were you replying to?



Also, off topic, since I'm already conversing with you - can you maybe take a look at the end of this thread: (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...t=19520&page=2)?

I mean...you actually edited the Chronology...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

I know...but - who were you replying to?

To Mithadan:

However, Dorwinion is mentioned in HoME 5 (thank you, HoME 13, I knew I saw this reference somewhere). In the concluding paragraph of the Quenta Silmarillion (c. 1938), the "meads" of Dorwinion are mentioned in connection with Avallon and Eriol/Aelfwine's travel into the West. CT believed that Dorwinion (at that time) was located in Tol Eressea. We can assume that Dorwinion, "land of wine," is a bit generic in nature. Wine produced in Tol Eressea before the exile would not appear more than two ages later in a Sindarin/Nandorin realm. So there was likely a place in Middle Earth during the Third Age named or known as Dorwinion.

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However, as sharp a ret-con as your theory is, we also I think should consider that Elves tended to give places names in their own language whatever the locals called it (Hadhodrond, Belegost, Ro(c)han(n), Esgaroth, even Erebor) and we only hear "Dorwinion" from Thranduil's people. What the Sindarized Nandor called the "Land of Wine" could very well have been a Mannish country. The location though makes perfect sense; the bustling (former) trade of Erebor, Dale and Esgaroth must have primarily moved up and down the River Running (water always being a better and faster way to transport goods than overland before the advent of steam).