Timeline/genealogies of the TFTE

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

4) And finally, which is why I asked Huinesoron to participate in this - to try and keep the old AAm timeline (in the 'flat-world', 9.582:1 SY to VY conception) while attempting to incorporate as much as possible from the NoME and other later texts

On reflection, this is actually *really easy* (in principle): you just have to ignore 2 statements. The first is that there were 3100 years between the arrival in Aman and the end of the First Age; the second is that the Trees died in 888.

Ignore those, and you can just put AAm, XIII.1, XIII.3, VII, and AAm together in order. Use the VY used when each one was written, calculate out a SY date for everything, and then convert into either XIII.1 or AAm VYs (ie, 144 or 9.58 SY).

This approach takes basically every other decision out of play: about the only one left is whether the March begins 20 or 288 SY after the Debate (ie, do you use the relative or actual dating in XIII.3).

If that's of any interest to you, I can pull together a calculation spreadsheet and give you "aligned dates" for the whole period in a day or two. Even if you don't end up using it, I'm not precious about spreadsheets.

EDIT: It was less than 1 day. This calculator takes a date in VY/SY format, and when that date is counting from, and outputs a running count of "Years of Arda", plus converting that date into various systems. Edit the columns left of the yellow line; the columns in blue are running the calculations. Elessar dies in the 169,055th year of the world's existence. ^_^

If you want to make use of it, you should be able to make a copy of the spreadsheet on your own Google drive (and maybe download a copy, I'm not sure). As it's quite fragile, I'm keeping the original as view-only so it doesn't break.

Fun fact: when the AAm timescale for the ages before the Trees is used, the dates used in NoME XIII.3 & VII require the Days of Bliss to begin before the world was created.

hS

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It was less than 1 day. This calculator takes a date in VY/SY format, and when that date is counting from, and outputs a running count of "Years of Arda", plus converting that date into various systems. Edit the columns left of the yellow line; the columns in blue are running the calculations. Elessar dies in the 169,055th year of the world's existence. ^_^

If you want to make use of it, you should be able to make a copy of the spreadsheet on your own Google drive (and maybe download a copy, I'm not sure). As it's quite fragile, I'm keeping the original as view-only so it doesn't break.

Fun fact: when the AAm timescale for the ages before the Trees is used, the dates used in NoME XIII.3 & VII require the Days of Bliss to begin before the world was created.

hS

Damn, you weren't kidding about your love of spreadsheets!

But, as someone who doesn't speak spreadsheet all that well - any chance you could put the actual or calculated AAm YT vs later NoME VY side by side? I.e. the Awaking of the Elves in the AAm is YT 1050, but (depending on the text), say, 850 VY in the NoME, and the death of the Trees is YT 1495 in the AAm but VY 888 in the NoME - adjusting for the difference in the Valian years (144 in NoME vs 9.582 in AAm), how would the adjusted ('flat-world') AAm timeline look like?

[Arvegil145]

@Findegil - can I make a giant family tree incorporating everything not discarded? Because I really itch to do so...





EDIT: is there any list of characters I'm supposed to exclude?

[Findegil]

What does stopp you from doing it?

If it has a chance to become a part of the final product of this sub-forum is another question. But considering how the goal has changed over all these years and that we are not really near to what is supposed to be the final result. I would not care much about that.

I don't see that we have a list of execluded charchters. The General change list might help a bit to find the form of the name that we used. But that is mostly true of the prominent charachters that saw some development of their names.

Respectfully
Findegil

[gondowe]

Hello everyone, I still come here from time to time. And if I can contribute something I will try to do so.

As for my opinion on this matter, first of all, like Findegil, I think that creating a "coherent" chronology is something highly desirable. But, I also think that to do so, both in a general way and much more so if you want to highlight many events, it would be necessary to "invent" some dates. Because, as you say, trying to adjust Aam and ToY with the outlines of chronologies started by the Professor and published in NoME is a task, I think impossible, unless something is "invented" by "filling in" or "supposing."

In this case it would not be enough to just "adapt" (e.g. NoME XIII VY850--> Aam 1050, 854-->1054... birth of Ingwë 865--> 1065 and so on) because, independently of the equivalence of the VY with 9.8 or 144 SY, which would be another matter, Tolkien already leaves us a suggested interval of 4 or 15 years, etc, so it can be adapted.
The same would happen (another example that comes to mind) with the year of the entry of the houses of the Edain in Beleriand, in which he made notes in the text but not in the chronology, so this could be "adapted" with something suggested by Tolkien himself.
I think that has already been discussed here, the issue of the implausibility of, for example, the duration of the Noldor's journey from Aman or Maedros' stay hanging on Thangorodrin, which, lasting each VY 144 solar years (even if you push me 9.8) is not very plausible. And that is a major handicap in my humble opinion.

So it occurs to me that it should be left, for the purpose of these projects, just for edit text, ambiguosly as a matter of mixing traditions and indicative dates.

But this is my opinion and it is not an obstacle to the task of elaborating said chronology as a coherent timeline.

Greetings