The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 02-09-2025, 06:06 AM   #1
Arvegil145
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Arvegil145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 369
Arvegil145 has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe Sons of Olwe

In The Silmarillion there is a passing mention of the fact that Olwe had (at least two) sons in addition to his daughter Earwen.

I always wondered why he never bothered naming them, until I realized that he actually did (sort of...maybe...).

So, in a 1930s genealogy associated with the earliest Annals of Beleriand we get a one and only mention of a character called Elulindo, son of Elwe of Alqualonde (Lost Road, 'The Genealogies', p. 403).

Confusingly enough, at this point in time the name Elwe applied to the brother of Thingol and the Lord of the Teleri in Valinor - in other words, this is basically Olwe under an earlier name (Lost Road, 'Quenta Silmarillion', note to §23 of chapter 3, p. 217).

Another interesting thing is that this Elwe is called 'Lord of Ships' (p. 403, 'The Genealogies'), while decades later in the Shibboleth Olwe holds the title of Ciriáran ('mariner king') of the Teleri of Valinor (PoME, 'Shibboleth of Feanor', 'The names of Finwe's descendants', p. 341).

However, I'm still not sure if Tolkien would've kept the name Elulindo after he switched Elwe > Olwe.




This used to be all that there was to this until a few months ago with the publication of Parma Eldalamberon 23 that is.

So, on p. 143 of PE 23 there is this gem:

Quote:
Celeborn Gildírion, C. son of Gildír (Sindarized form of his father's Telerin name Gilitīro 'starwatcher').
This text dates from at least c. 1968 because it references the Eldarin Hands, Fingers and Numerals by name on the very next page (p. 144).

And depending on how long after 1968 it was written it could be close in time to the 1973 text describing Celeborn as a grandson of Olwe (UT, 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn', p. 299 of HarperCollins version).

Therefore, this Gilitīro (notably having a Telerin name!) could very well be one of the sons of Olwe.




With all that out of the way - what is everyone's thoughts on this? And more importantly, does anyone know of anything else that might shine some more light on the subject?
__________________
Quote:
Hige sceal þē heardra, heorte þē cēnre,
mōd sceal þē māre, þē ūre mægen lytlað.

Last edited by Arvegil145; 02-09-2025 at 06:10 AM.
Arvegil145 is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:29 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.